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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 13, 2016 14:29:40 GMT -8
Example: Chapter 1: Eva Chapter 2: Sola Chapter 3: Icari Chapter 4: Asaga Chapter 1 Eva route+ decline. Chapter 2: continue Eva route + start Sola route + decline. Chapter 3. continue Eva route + continue Sola route + start Icari route + decline. Chapter 4: continue Eva route + continue Sola route + continue Icari route + start Asaga route + decline. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE IDEA. And now, when I ask "how is taking care of the majority of one romance per game going to cause financial difficulties and drawbacks??", you jump to "trolling". I will explain it to you, why its not financially feasible: in Sunrider we know all the girls from start. At some point even Love in Space presented it in the way " which girl will you get?" on their page (around 2014?). So after teasing and promising something, fans will be disappointed if they dont get it. Especially if they have to pay for it. it's quite simple. Fans who are absolutely not interested in Icari route (your chapter 3) wont buy that chapter. Thats why it will be financially difficult. And there are even worse possibilities: Even more hardcore fan who is only interested in Asaga will say " Call me in 4 years when you finally release chap 4 with Asaga. Bye." Just strategy part of game is not that good to justify players paying for it. Mask of Arcadius gave us choices and hints of possible romance... so thats what players expect. Another thing to mention is the amount of work developers would have to do to include every possible event in later chapters (in every next chapter, the amount of work you have to do skyrockets). Why "your idea" worked in Mass Effect? Do you know why this episodic attitude was feasible in Mass Effect? Because in Mass Effect 1 we had only 2 girlz: Liara + Ashley. Players didnt know about Subject Zero, Miranda, etc. so they couldnt be pissed "why no Miranda romance?!"
While there were introduced new girlz in Mass Effect 2 , the 2 original girls were "busy" with another work, so they were not available so Sheppard had excuse to get intimate with new girlz... or he could wait for Mass Effect 3, but that idea works only that much. People are not willing to pay money to get something they dont want. If Bioware presented 4 games without Liara/Ashley people would be mad.
If it's optional whether or not to go down the "Icari Route", it shouldn't be an issue. Same for Asaga. I'm simply taking how, like with Chigara in LibDay, you could focus on the development of one or two girls per entry and then have one romance route be optional for each. As it stands, more then a few people didn't buy LibDay purely because the one romance there wasn't optional, not because there was one romance. The Mass Effect example was more geared to Garrus and Tali, both of which we knew but could not romance in the first Mass Effect. Miranda, Jack and the rest were not part of my example.
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Post by Ardanis on Mar 13, 2016 15:00:21 GMT -8
The problem is that if a game features one optional romance route, that you may or may not choose, it creates two issues.
First, the base game material should be competitive enough, else the people who declined the optional route will be pissed at missing on content.
Second, that sounds similar to "Take the reward" / "Decline" kind of a choice, which is not really a choice at all. After all, who is their sane mind would refuse. I.e. what's the point in playing the game, if you're not interested in what it has to offer.
The alternative is to make two equal routes, one featuring romance, and the other not. Unfortunately, that tends to get expensive to produce real quick.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 13, 2016 16:00:57 GMT -8
The problem is that if a game features one optional romance route, that you may or may not choose, it creates two issues. First, the base game material should be competitive enough, else the people who declined the optional route will be pissed at missing on content. Second, that sounds similar to "Take the reward" / "Decline" kind of a choice, which is not really a choice at all. After all, who is their sane mind would refuse. I.e. what's the point in playing the game, if you're not interested in what it has to offer. The alternative is to make two equal routes, one featuring romance, and the other not. Unfortunately, that tends to get expensive to produce real quick. First: Of course the central material would be competitive. One of the things people seemed to dislike about LibDay was that a forced romance was central to the plot - again, taking after Mass Effect, who you choose doesn't have to really impact how the main story goes. Second: I figured it would follow something similar to LibDay but different - develop a close bond with the crewmember in question, with there actually being a choice to take it farther. Also, again referencing Mass Effect (3), the crew interactions weren't vastly different between "normal" and "romanced", so one CG and some extra dialouge apiece would probably be all that's needed. Plus the choice wouldn't even exist if you choose someone in a prior game. I really don't think a system like this is quite so expensive as everyone assumes it to be.
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Post by KnightOfXentar on Mar 14, 2016 8:08:12 GMT -8
First: Of course the central material would be competitive. One of the things people seemed to dislike about LibDay was that a forced romance was central to the plot - again, taking after Mass Effect, who you choose doesn't have to really impact how the main story goes. Second: I figured it would follow something similar to LibDay but different - develop a close bond with the crewmember in question, with there actually being a choice to take it farther. Also, again referencing Mass Effect (3), the crew interactions weren't vastly different between "normal" and "romanced", so one CG and some extra dialouge apiece would probably be all that's needed. Plus the choice wouldn't even exist if you choose someone in a prior game. I really don't think a system like this is quite so expensive as everyone assumes it to be. seriously man? If you think that "friend" and "romance" is almost the same thing with the difference of 1 CG and few different sentences, then you have never been in decent relationship. Due to your lack of experience you might be confused because of what happened with Chigara in Liberation Day. But that was the special case, her romance almost felt like brother/sister thing. Basically " special case" is NOT common thing, it cannot work that way with everyone. Anyway, let me clear something for you: You are misunderstanding one thing: we are not arguing that your system is totally undoable garbage... We are just saying that its not a good idea. These are 2 different things. We thank you for contributing your revolutionary idea and now you can stop arguing, thanks.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 14, 2016 11:05:10 GMT -8
First: Of course the central material would be competitive. One of the things people seemed to dislike about LibDay was that a forced romance was central to the plot - again, taking after Mass Effect, who you choose doesn't have to really impact how the main story goes. Second: I figured it would follow something similar to LibDay but different - develop a close bond with the crewmember in question, with there actually being a choice to take it farther. Also, again referencing Mass Effect (3), the crew interactions weren't vastly different between "normal" and "romanced", so one CG and some extra dialouge apiece would probably be all that's needed. Plus the choice wouldn't even exist if you choose someone in a prior game. I really don't think a system like this is quite so expensive as everyone assumes it to be. seriously man? If you think that "friend" and "romance" is almost the same thing with the difference of 1 CG and few different sentences, then you have never been in decent relationship. Due to your lack of experience you might be confused because of what happened with Chigara in Liberation Day. But that was the special case, her romance almost felt like brother/sister thing. Basically " special case" is NOT common thing, it cannot work that way with everyone. Anyway, let me clear something for you: You are misunderstanding one thing: we are not arguing that your system is totally undoable garbage... We are just saying that its not a good idea. These are 2 different things. We thank you for contributing your revolutionary idea and now you can stop arguing, thanks. Not "friend" - "brother/sister". And I'm saying that, thanks to V2.00, it kinda feels like Kayto has the building blocks to get that close with the rest of the crew now, too. So it's not exactly a "special case" anymore, now is it? One could argue he was getting that way with Sola already as well, back in MoA. He had something similar - though more stunted and introverted - with Ava as well. Hell, even Kryska and Icari seem a stone's throw away from being that close. Again, I don't see how and I don't see why. And saying "it's not a good idea" is tantamount to the same thing, you know.
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Post by tanker4444 on Mar 14, 2016 14:13:09 GMT -8
Why "your idea" worked in Mass Effect? Do you know why this episodic attitude was feasible in Mass Effect? Because in Mass Effect 1 we had only 2 girlz: Liara + Ashley. Players didnt know about Subject Zero, Miranda, etc. so they couldnt be pissed "why no Miranda romance?!"
While there were introduced new girlz in Mass Effect 2 , the 2 original girls were "busy" with another work, so they were not available so Sheppard had excuse to get intimate with new girlz... or he could wait for Mass Effect 3, but that idea works only that much. People are not willing to pay money to get something they dont want. If Bioware presented 4 games without Liara/Ashley people would be mad.
Actually, it didn´t work in ME either. When ME3 was released and it was discovered that NONE of your decisions in the previous games actually mattered the devs said it was because they didn´t want to waste resources in paths that not everyone would see, and that it´d be too complex and time consuming to do so anyway. This is why many, myself included, consider ME a failed series, the basic premise of your choices mattering was simply ignored because Bioware had decided to be lazy/cheap and not follow through on their promise of impactful choices that mattered. ME romance suffered from the same problem, Bioware simply decided that making your romance options matter was just too difficult and expensive so any of the ME2 romance options were written off or treated as cameos in the last game. Then there was the ending... its not what we´re talking about but its always worth complaining about. I cannot decide if Bioware was trying to be artsy or just cheap, maybe their egos really made them think that people would eat whatever they threw out, whatever it was they completely killed off a franchise. The ending and the failure to make choices matter after going on at length FOR YEARS that it was important killed a multi year franchise at the last moment. Fuck EA/Bioware.
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Post by KnightOfXentar on Mar 14, 2016 14:39:48 GMT -8
Actually, it didn´t work in ME either. When ME3 was released and it was discovered that NONE of your decisions in the previous games actually mattered the devs said it was because they didn´t want to waste resources in paths that not everyone would see, and that it´d be too complex and time consuming to do so anyway. This is why many, myself included, consider ME a failed series, the basic premise of your choices mattering was simply ignored because Bioware had decided to be lazy/cheap and not follow through on their promise of impactful choices that mattered. ME romance suffered from the same problem, Bioware simply decided that making your romance options matter was just too difficult and expensive so any of the ME2 romance options were written off or treated as cameos in the last game. Then there was the ending... its not what we´re talking about but its always worth complaining about. I cannot decide if Bioware was trying to be artsy or just cheap, maybe their egos really made them think that people would eat whatever they threw out, whatever it was they completely killed off a franchise. The ending and the failure to make choices matter after going on at length FOR YEARS that it was important killed a multi year franchise at the last moment. Fuck EA/Bioware. first of all, I never talked about Mass Effect 3 in my post (only Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2). In fact, in one of my posts on forum I even complained that "Mass Effect 3 suckz". So yeah, that pretty much sums up my oppinion about ME3. First 2 episodes were great, so sad Bioware ruined the series.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 14, 2016 14:39:49 GMT -8
What killed Mass effect 3 was having 2 years to work on the final game while stocking Mass Effect 2 full of DLC that were mostly things that they didn't have time to put in the game (and later releasing that complete package as PS3 port 1 year before ME3) precisely because 2 years of development are simply not enough for a good and long story AAA game.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 14, 2016 16:33:20 GMT -8
Why "your idea" worked in Mass Effect? Do you know why this episodic attitude was feasible in Mass Effect? Because in Mass Effect 1 we had only 2 girlz: Liara + Ashley. Players didnt know about Subject Zero, Miranda, etc. so they couldnt be pissed "why no Miranda romance?!"
While there were introduced new girlz in Mass Effect 2 , the 2 original girls were "busy" with another work, so they were not available so Sheppard had excuse to get intimate with new girlz... or he could wait for Mass Effect 3, but that idea works only that much. People are not willing to pay money to get something they dont want. If Bioware presented 4 games without Liara/Ashley people would be mad.
Actually, it didn´t work in ME either. When ME3 was released and it was discovered that NONE of your decisions in the previous games actually mattered the devs said it was because they didn´t want to waste resources in paths that not everyone would see, and that it´d be too complex and time consuming to do so anyway. This is why many, myself included, consider ME a failed series, the basic premise of your choices mattering was simply ignored because Bioware had decided to be lazy/cheap and not follow through on their promise of impactful choices that mattered. ME romance suffered from the same problem, Bioware simply decided that making your romance options matter was just too difficult and expensive so any of the ME2 romance options were written off or treated as cameos in the last game. Then there was the ending... its not what we´re talking about but its always worth complaining about. I cannot decide if Bioware was trying to be artsy or just cheap, maybe their egos really made them think that people would eat whatever they threw out, whatever it was they completely killed off a franchise. The ending and the failure to make choices matter after going on at length FOR YEARS that it was important killed a multi year franchise at the last moment. Fuck EA/Bioware. It DID kinda work, though - as far as the romances go at least. By that point, the Normandy Crew had gotten so close that they were practically all family - close enough that they all had pretty deep connections to each-other. So it didn't exactly feel quite so jarring in ME3 when romances weren't game-changing moments among the crew. As far as the romances go, those never affected the main story anyway in any of the three games. ME2 did much of the same thing with ME1's romances as well, and it didn't have the same pretenses ME3 did. The romances were always kind of more insular from the main story, and the design linearity of the ME games only became a real, enjoyment-destroying issue at the final ending of ME3 - which was the only thing that really did require the major choices have some kind of agency.
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