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Post by Nemjen on Mar 10, 2016 9:51:34 GMT -8
To avoid clashes between the versions with community feedback please find your new canvas below. As before let's keep things constructive and focus specifically on your likes / dislikes as well as things that you feel could use addressing or could use answering. I will admit I haven't had the chance to fully play it myself yet as here in the UK the working day is just coming to an end, but I will drop by again when I do with an update. Edit: A big thank you to Samu and Vaen over the last couple of days for all the hard work in getting this out promptly but also to those who provided feedback over the course of the testing to help clean it up lingering bugs / issues.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 10:19:43 GMT -8
I guess I'll be the first to reply here... though it's probably not gonna be what you want to hear Agreeing with Histidine on this - It feels like an awful lot of handwaving to be done all of a sudden. If we'd had some sort of build-up to a bit of what we'd seen regarding Claude and the like, this wouldn't be as terribly surprising. Again, probably beating a dead horse, but I feel that MID-GAME content would have softened the blow far more then post-game content, because - even if it is good in a stand-alone sense - it feels like rushed damage-control. It's not like there wasn't story in storage to use - there were plans for two whole chapters in MoA regarding a focus on Claude and Icari respectively that could have been salvaged and implemented in LD. With the Doctor Who references (playful, coy character who's hinted to be a time traveler and is a doctor - not to mention her chest is more then big enough to hold two hearts ) I kinda expected Claude to be a time-traveler. But... I didn't expect her to be some God-entity - if anything it kinda makes it a plot-hole to have a walking wish-wall like that. Again, mid-game content probably could have salvaged that. Kryska's a bit more understandable though, because she's kinda like Fontana in that sense - she desperately wants to believe her cause is still savable, even if realistically it's beyond hope. Granted, Fontana's position in PACT makes his attempts somewhat more salvageable then Kryska's current one. And while I give applause to there being more character-interaction choices... it feels kinda late for it. Again, just me speaking, but it feels kinda cheep since we were already forced into a romance - had the relationship with Chigara been something we could choose to make platonic or romantic, it would make it easier narrative-wise. There didn't even need to be other romances in the game - just the choice to not have one now. As it is, with that being a forced plot-point, it gives me an uncomfortable "why bother - the romance was already locked in a while ago, so why would choice matter now?" feeling. Just some flavor differences that give enough "illusion-of-choice" to ward off the feeling of railroading would have been all that was needed for mid-game content. And I only say this because, as much flak as the ending got, it was more then matched by what people felt was a forced romance.
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Post by Nagashofchaos on Mar 10, 2016 11:17:20 GMT -8
Yeah the speed at which Samu and Vaen pumped out the beta was impressive; however we need to get this to the actual game asap. To start the ship map proves just how pointless it is. However for some un-Claudely reason people want it (shrugs). Though as a suggestion, perhaps creating similar in Academy for said map, as the blue print map (to me) is rather messy and of low quality. The in general thought behind this is to give a more visually appealing, but as well to get all locations on the screen at once so that you don't have to scan through all the levels every so often. Now as the Sunrider is no more this is a suggestion more for the future hub/flagship. Now the Starmap has a bit more reason for existance. Though the side missions would all be done it gives the player the choice of what order to do them in. Which not the important still gives more "freedom"/"control" to the player. Ultimately it's roughly good as it is though it may get crowded later on. A idea of improvement is showing the zones of control of the factions (seeing the frontlines) now though more extra work (and possibly pointless) provides more information to the player at what they are looking at/facing. Will be going over story and choices STORY~~~~, I think the injection of story in the end definitely makes it better. Showed to those uninformed that this isn't the end of Kayto and as well provided a nice chunk of choices which were missing from the front of LD.
Opinions on the Choices .5. Cosette's Ryder: ... I don't really see why someone wouldn't restore it? Is this a Moral V Prince choice? Though apparently lots of people want the best Loli Space Pirate who ever existed to not be a thorn in their side so I wonder how many even got here? Also does another event occur here if she went "Mommy" (it's been so long since I exploded her with the Wishall, on that note I don't get the option to kill her with Wishall anymore, I'll be including my choices bellow). 1. Chigara isn't one of you: This choice is a bit weird as the User/Kayto has to be in denial that Chigara was a Prototype; which at this point can't be denied. However it's a slighly obvious point for Chigara, but the other option I don't know about as it displays Kayto actually thinking about the sum of events and thus not necessarily recognizing Chigara as the enemy. 2. Chigara's betrayal: This choice similar to the first also requires a interesting mindset as it's obvious she was unconsciously carrying out orders, and thus it was Alice who truly did the act on Liberation Day. However at the same time I could just be fooled and all the Blood thirsty Chigara haters will enjoy this option. However I will say that this choice is though good as the player either reconciles the railroadish romance (ish) or completely rejects it. 3. To gag the L7: Well last chance be make friends with the prototype whole, replayed just know to see the comically fast disposal of L7NN. Though as someone who actually liked Lynn over Chigara as well as having voted for her in past popularity contests, I can say I will be keeping my pet L7. Now this choice breathes future consequence with other prototypes but as well gives possibility for replacement pilot; because if past experience is anything to go on for Ava it's that I put the enemy back into their Ryder. 4. Reconcile with Ava: in all honesty I don't see how both don't achieve the same goal. First is vastly more casual and place undue blame on poor Kayto >:[ . Second choice I feel to be the better one as it is looking towards the future and not dwelling on past mistakes. Now I could see why the romance isn't rekinded with that choice in comparison to the other, I feel this is similar to a Moralist v Prince type choice not so much that ones good and the other is evilish but that it's two different ways to reach a similar outcome. But then again maybe Ava's romance has to be all mushy, hrm wonder if there is any difference if she isn't scarred. 5. Sola the Disturbance: I think I've seen a similar choice before... hrm, anyway I felt the wording for the 2nd choice to be a bit odd as trying to discern the meaning behind it. Which looking at it is I guess a bit obvious though I had to think a bit the first time coming to it.
Other thoughts Chigara Deredere has evolved to become Chigara Yandere :3 BOW BEFORE YOUR GOD RYUVIA!!!! Looking forward to facing Kuushana, will be slightly disappointed as it's revealed she is no waifu.
(re-playing again again, so that my choices before game start are correct. Side note I still can't get the bloody save imported. Which I guess is alright since upgrades don't go over however, I heared somewhere there is a choice which isn't a part of said choice screen. So~~~ yeah~~~~~)
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Post by ariesbuonarroti on Mar 10, 2016 12:07:53 GMT -8
Quoting myself:
Like seriously, it's a blatantly obvious hook.
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Post by eider on Mar 10, 2016 12:14:04 GMT -8
The ship-map function is similar to starmap - both give sense of choice and freedom whom you speak/what you do first (say all you want - people actually do want to decide whom you speak first even if game completely ignores it) and in some rare cases you may even speak side events of character development (i believe that was the case in MoA?). It's also used as a way to access store and R&D and i think it does it way better than option during dialogue in VN mode. I agree that ship-map images can be changed but it's not really something required and can wait (similarly i don't like the new R&D ans store, it looks kind-of like from some low-end hand-drawn game or smth, idk) Haha, yes - i already see pitchfork mob for the next game if it's not included in some way or another - Samu-kun - don't make us beg...
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 10, 2016 13:59:17 GMT -8
I personally agree with eider that the ship-map is more for an illusion than for anything substantial, but I think it's actually a fairly important illusion. On the release itself, I'll summarize what I said earlier: - Claude was a little surprising, but it was relatively easy to realize with all the hints (and intuition; her death scene was just too absurd and convenient even for her). Now, while the extents of her powers are a little surprising, I think it will do well for everyone to think of her more as a kind of "The Doctor" than a true deity (their skills and duties also seem to overlap). For the rest, this kind of actually solves some plot holes. I think she however won't be a simple ally, but more of a "friendly trickster deity". - The sudden return of Asaga and Sola felt a little convenient, but it makes sense. I personally would have preferred Asaga saying she had some kind of sudden intuition (given that Claude herself said that she sensed the prototypes brain waves instinctively and later could find the captain, some kind of 6th sense wouldn't seem far-fetched) than simply seeing it on the holo, but, eh, not that big of a stretch . - Was pleasantly surprised by Lynn. It adds an interesting element and forces some changes on Chigara (really, what i disliked most of her was her complete and utter absence of character development despite all the situations she was in). I mean, I always joked that she had the makings of a yandere, but seeing it more or less done brought a chill in my spine (of the good kind). Now, the fact that there was a last escape pod in the deck that did felt too convenient - More Icari and Sola. Sola's conclusion also advanced the plot while bringing some nice developments to her. Both her and Ava's part felt a tad too short for their actual significance, but it was good. - I Like the new PACT character, but I'm afraid she may sideline Fontana a tad too much, what with her basically taking his place as "PACT's competent commander". With the loss of Grey and PACT's modernized Fleet I actually thought that Fontana would be more than enough to take on the Alliance (also, Kuushana told that PACT had always lost, but wouldn't the 2nd Battle of Ongess count as a PACT victory? Even if they couldn't retake it, they basically inflicted 25% casualties on the Combined Fleet with very few damage of their own). Kinda wanted to have some kind of side-story controlling Fontana and fighting against the Alliance's numbers...
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 14:24:44 GMT -8
I personally agree with eider that the ship-map is more for an illusion than for anything substantial, but I think it's actually a fairly important illusion. On the release itself, I'll summarize what I said earlier: - Claude was a little surprising, but it was relatively easy to realize with all the hints (and intuition; her death scene was just too absurd and convenient even for her). Now, while the extents of her powers are a little surprising, I think it will do well for everyone to think of her more as a kind of "The Doctor" than a true deity (their skills and duties also seem to overlap). For the rest, this kind of actually solves some plot holes. I think she however won't be a simple ally, but more of a "friendly trickster deity". - The sudden return of Asaga and Sola felt a little convenient, but it makes sense. I personally would have preferred Asaga saying she had some kind of sudden intuition (given that Claude herself said that she sensed the prototypes brain waves instinctively and later could find the captain, some kind of 6th sense wouldn't seem far-fetched) than simply seeing it on the holo, but, eh, not that big of a stretch . - Was pleasantly surprised by Lynn. It adds an interesting element and forces some changes on Chigara (really, what i disliked most of her was her complete and utter absence of character development despite all the situations she was in). I mean, I always joked that she had the makings of a yandere, but seeing it more or less done brought a chill in my spine (of the good kind). Now, the fact that there was a last escape pod in the deck that did felt too convenient - More Icari and Sola. Sola's conclusion also advanced the plot while bringing some nice developments to her. Both her and Ava's part felt a tad too short for their actual significance, but it was good. - I Like the new PACT character, but I'm afraid she may sideline Fontana a tad too much, what with her basically taking his place as "PACT's competent commander". With the loss of Grey and PACT's modernized Fleet I actually thought that Fontana would be more than enough to take on the Alliance (also, Kuushana told that PACT had always lost, but wouldn't the 2nd Battle of Ongess count as a PACT victory? Even if they couldn't retake it, they basically inflicted 25% casualties on the Combined Fleet with very few damage of their own). Kinda wanted to have some kind of side-story controlling Fontana and fighting against the Alliance's numbers...
I think elder's point was that it's not actually important because it doesn't FEEL important - there's no real disguising it's an illusion like the old games did. I actually think Claude's "true nature" causes just as many plot-holes as it fixes. It would have been better overall if she were differentiated as not being a literal god - more like an ancient who, be it through genetic or technological means, attained comparable abilities. And telling everyone to think of her like that if she's honestly not might just draw attention to it, TBH.
Most else out of what was introduced helps or works, albeit feeling a tad rushed due to the damage-control mode it was made in, but it still doesn't fix what a lot of people felt was the main issue in the mid-game - "railroad romance." And that's actually not to hard to fix - slap a slight choice where Chigara is more a sister instead of a lover and I think the issues with the story (or what story currently exists) would fade entirely. No new CG's needed - just a couple lines here and there. It's not like Kayto's bond with Chigara would be lessened by the optional distinctions.
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Post by saibotlieh on Mar 10, 2016 14:36:13 GMT -8
I like the return of the ship-map and starmap. The former offers an interlude from the story, makes the whole game feel a bit less linear and is my place of choice for research & purchase, it felt rather wrong to do this during the VN parts or directly before a battle. The later gives a better feeling of the universe, where the different places of the story are located to each other and makes the side-quest real side-quests. And I like the return of the English voices. More options are always welcome. To the new story content: First, two flawed sentences: 8522 "I can't believe I just found like you like that!" 9439 "... I was merely in cold sleep for mere months."
I was rather okay with the original ending already, but I like the added content. It ends the game rather on a positive note than a grim one, which is nice. Also, the added information about Alice helps quite a bit to flash her character out a bit, might have been better placed in mid-game though. If there are plans to modify these parts of the game as well, maybe it could be added in form of flashbacks Alice has. Might not even need new voice files that way.
Judging from the extra information, should Alpha still be called "Prototype" Alpha in the end credits by the way?
It is nice to see more choices again, although some of them are rather simple like/no-like choices of a single character. I find the better choices are the ones where one has to decide between two characters, like for the "Chigara did / didn't betray us" one, which is in the end a choice between Chigara and Asaga. Also, you are really generous with affection points there, this might overshadow previous choices quite a bit.
While on the topic of choices, the choice to salvage the battle site or not could be made a bit harder if there is an advised intel cost added to the salvaging. Similar, saving the Havoc could cost some $.
Furthermore, the sprites of Alpha and Claude mismatched somehow, the same with Lynn and the other girls on the frighter. From my point of view, the mid-game is still the part that would need some beefing up. The amount of things that happen in LD is alright, but it might have been good to give them a bit more time to develop. One or two smaller campaigns before the Liberation Battle of Cera would have been nice, for example to gather more forces (the Cera gunboats come out of nowhere at the moment) and to flesh out the universe of Sunrider a bit more. Further, I would have liked one or two scenes with Cosette during her imprisonment. She was a rather big player in the first two episodes, so it felt a bit strange that nobody bothered about her anymore. One or two more scenes with Lynn wouldn't hurt either. Don't know if there are any plans to modified mid-game parts, I can certainly understand if not since that would shakes everything up quite a bit. Just wanted to put my view on this here. Altogether I'd like to add my thanks for providing this extra content, especially in such short time. I really appreciate the amount of work spend on this.
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Post by bigfoot on Mar 10, 2016 14:54:44 GMT -8
The big update sounds great, Thanks to both Sam and Vael, I can only think how stressful this must have been to put it out so quickly. *goes off to burn down work so I have time to play it* Further, I would have liked one or two scenes with Cosette during her imprisonment. She was a rather big player in the first two episodes, so it felt a bit strange that nobody bothered about her anymore. One or two more scenes with Lynn wouldn't hurt either. Fully agreed, but it does leave a nice gap for mods to fill, so long as we remember some people won't have saved her. It will be a while but when I pull my act together its convenient for her to be so accessible...
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 10, 2016 15:20:53 GMT -8
I think elder's point was that it's not actually important because it doesn't FEEL important - there's no real disguising it's an illusion like the old games did. I actually think Claude's "true nature" causes just as many plot-holes as it fixes. It would have been better overall if she were differentiated as not being a literal god - more like an ancient who, be it through genetic or technological means, attained comparable abilities. And telling everyone to think of her like that if she's honestly not might just draw attention to it, TBH.
Most else out of what was introduced helps or works, albeit feeling a tad rushed due to the damage-control mode it was made in, but it still doesn't fix what a lot of people felt was the main issue in the mid-game - "railroad romance." And that's actually not to hard to fix - slap a slight choice where Chigara is more a sister instead of a lover and I think the issues with the story (or what story currently exists) would fade entirely. No new CG's needed - just a couple lines here and there. It's not like Kayto's bond with Chigara would be lessened by the optional distinctions.
I'm confused by your first phrase; both him and me (if it wasn't clear) liked the return of the star-map because it does a better job relating scenes and improving the flow through a bit of classic illusion of choice. I think both him and me argued that it actually was important even if it doesn't feel important, which is kinda the opposite of what you say? Really, a very powerful dimension traveler was implied since Academy. I also think you're taking issue with the word God. Remember that the one who says is Sola, the most religious (even if in a strange way) of the group, and that in her time the Ryuvian Emperor was venerated as a god. She even refers to Alice's awakening as "blasphemous". I think it's pretty obvious she's not referring to a Gof of creation nor anything similar, but actually to the summum of what Ryuvian emperor wanted. An immortal being with the power to control this galaxy; which is more or less "The Doctor"
And yes, you're against the railroad romance. We get it.
I've also would have personally added some parts in the middle too (personally had changed Tydaria into a full-blown main arc and 2 battles), but I understand is kinda a moot point so late in the game. Samu-kun has never done revisions (he is open to criticism and will probably take it into account, but I've never seen him rewrite anything based on feedback; he's of the "always ahead and never look back" writers), and if Lib Day took a year to make, then he probably wants to start thinking on the 4th part sooner than later.
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Post by ariesbuonarroti on Mar 10, 2016 16:55:53 GMT -8
slap a slight choice where Chigara is more a sister instead of a lover and I think the issues with the story (or what story currently exists) would fade entirely Maybe it's because you played the Steam version and I played the uncensored one (I'm assuming here), but just saying "Chigara was like my sister" doesn't cut it. Kayto had sex with her, man. He undressed her, bent her over, and did all sorts of things to her. It was lewd. You don't do that to your sister. Fortunately, I think the current ending is more than enough to give closure to the "forced Chigara route" mistake. It does essentially give you a choice for Kayto to say that it was a mistake and he was blinded by his own desire for happiness. Also, in case the player DID like romancing Chigara, you can always be a monster and tell Asaga that Chigara was a good girl who dindu nuffin. While she clings to you. Crying. You fiend. Have I mentioned Asaga has a lovely rear end? It's very apparent in that particular CG. But I digress. Anyway, I want to say that I ultimately liked the added content in v 2.00, and while it by no means fixes the core problems with the original game (without which this fiasco could've been avoided), it really does serve as a "love letter" of sorts, showing the fans that the developers actually care what we think and that for all the mistakes they still know what they're doing, story-wise. I'm satisfied, and I can say that this version of Liberation Day has left me looking forward to a part 4, whereas a week ago v 1.0 left me confused and irritated. That's a really positive change for 6 days worth of extra development time.
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Post by vaendryl on Mar 10, 2016 17:32:10 GMT -8
I actually think Claude's "true nature" causes just as many plot-holes as it fixes. It would have been better overall if she were differentiated as not being a literal god - more like an ancient who, be it through genetic or technological means, attained comparable abilities. That's actually how I understood it Actual divinity seems more than a little out of place. Don't know how she could've gained greater power than even the ancient Ryuvians at their peak, but the history is long. and... who's to say she's not originally from a distance future instead? Hell, if she's not even from this dimension little of it even matters.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 10, 2016 18:28:24 GMT -8
I think if LD had shipped with the content 2.0 has there would have been a lot less grief all around. As is 2.0 has confirmed the faith I have in this team. So here's hoping for the future.
I've also been able to edit my Steam review, my cautious recommendation is now much stronger. So once again I'm really glad you folks did this. Means a lot.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 19:35:29 GMT -8
I think elder's point was that it's not actually important because it doesn't FEEL important - there's no real disguising it's an illusion like the old games did. I actually think Claude's "true nature" causes just as many plot-holes as it fixes. It would have been better overall if she were differentiated as not being a literal god - more like an ancient who, be it through genetic or technological means, attained comparable abilities. And telling everyone to think of her like that if she's honestly not might just draw attention to it, TBH.
Most else out of what was introduced helps or works, albeit feeling a tad rushed due to the damage-control mode it was made in, but it still doesn't fix what a lot of people felt was the main issue in the mid-game - "railroad romance." And that's actually not to hard to fix - slap a slight choice where Chigara is more a sister instead of a lover and I think the issues with the story (or what story currently exists) would fade entirely. No new CG's needed - just a couple lines here and there. It's not like Kayto's bond with Chigara would be lessened by the optional distinctions.
I'm confused by your first phrase; both him and me (if it wasn't clear) liked the return of the star-map because it does a better job relating scenes and improving the flow through a bit of classic illusion of choice. I think both him and me argued that it actually was important even if it doesn't feel important, which is kinda the opposite of what you say? Really, a very powerful dimension traveler was implied since Academy. I also think you're taking issue with the word God. Remember that the one who says is Sola, the most religious (even if in a strange way) of the group, and that in her time the Ryuvian Emperor was venerated as a god. She even refers to Alice's awakening as "blasphemous". I think it's pretty obvious she's not referring to a Gof of creation nor anything similar, but actually to the summum of what Ryuvian emperor wanted. An immortal being with the power to control this galaxy; which is more or less "The Doctor"
And yes, you're against the railroad romance. We get it.
I've also would have personally added some parts in the middle too (personally had changed Tydaria into a full-blown main arc and 2 battles), but I understand is kinda a moot point so late in the game. Samu-kun has never done revisions (he is open to criticism and will probably take it into account, but I've never seen him rewrite anything based on feedback; he's of the "always ahead and never look back" writers), and if Lib Day took a year to make, then he probably wants to start thinking on the 4th part sooner than later. He said that while that he likes the return of the map, I don't recall him saying that the "illusion of choice" was really maintained here. If that was wrong, then sorry. But I said the opposite of you because, unlike the prior games, it really doesn't feel like that "illusion" is there like in the past games - absence of dialouge choices and RPG conversation menus when talking to characters and the like make it feel more a gimmick then a functional element. Um, I don't recall Academy ever implying that dimension traveling was the result of divine or near-divine powers. In fact I'm pretty sure we were only ever shown it as being the product of technology, which would have hinted Claude having something more along the lines of a TARDIS, not physical cosmic superpowers. And I'm using the word "God" because the boot honestly fits given what we've just seen her do.
And that's just it - I'm not entirely against the "railroad romance". I'm against it not being optional, which is extremely easy to fix. I have no issue with it being the only romance available this time around - it's that Kayto's bond with Chigara has nothing that makes it work any more or less as a platonic-sibling bond then it does as a romantic-lover bond. A few extra lines of dialouge and maybe one single CG could fix the entirety of the remaining story complaints regarding that. Hell, make it a selling point for each game - romance Chigara in chapter one, abstain from that and you can romance someone else in chapter two, abstain both times and you can romance someone else in chapter three, ect. It would also take pressure off by axing the need to make five separate routes for the final game or whatever if you split the available routes between each chapter. Samu-kun has never had backlash quite like this either. Nor has he ever added in more content like this AT ALL in response to feedback. I think it's a little early to treat "never" as fact right now. Especially since it, again, would be comparatively easy to fix.
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Post by admiralcheese on Mar 10, 2016 19:41:24 GMT -8
Honestly I'm okay with the forced mance up till the end of LD now. That's mostly because the revised ending is an obvious set up for waifu choice in the future and I'm pretty sure our forced waifu will go from "So dere it makes you sick" to "Hey I thought Cosette was supposed to be our crazy Yandere?"
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 19:46:29 GMT -8
slap a slight choice where Chigara is more a sister instead of a lover and I think the issues with the story (or what story currently exists) would fade entirely Maybe it's because you played the Steam version and I played the uncensored one (I'm assuming here), but just saying "Chigara was like my sister" doesn't cut it. Kayto had sex with her, man. He undressed her, bent her over, and did all sorts of things to her. It was lewd. You don't do that to your sister. Fortunately, I think the current ending is more than enough to give closure to the "forced Chigara route" mistake. It does essentially give you a choice for Kayto to say that it was a mistake and he was blinded by his own desire for happiness. Also, in case the player DID like romancing Chigara, you can always be a monster and tell Asaga that Chigara was a good girl who dindu nuffin. While she clings to you. Crying. You fiend. Have I mentioned Asaga has a lovely rear end? It's very apparent in that particular CG. But I digress. Anyway, I want to say that I ultimately liked the added content in v 2.00, and while it by no means fixes the core problems with the original game (without which this fiasco could've been avoided), it really does serve as a "love letter" of sorts, showing the fans that the developers actually care what we think and that for all the mistakes they still know what they're doing, story-wise. I'm satisfied, and I can say that this version of Liberation Day has left me looking forward to a part 4, whereas a week ago v 1.0 left me confused and irritated. That's a really positive change for 6 days worth of extra development time. I'd correct you, but something tells me you knew full well what I meant here about it being optional Still, fixing it isn't as hard as many might think.
-Step One: Add in the choice option. -Step Two: Alter the dialouge slightly so that there's no kissing or the like between the two (which only involves changing, what, a dozen or so lines? Maybe even less then that? You wouldn't even need to edit out Chigara asking Kayto to help raise her kids - it would look more like she's asking him to help as a friend, not that he'd be the father). -Step Three: Remove Kayto and Chigara having sex (if you want to go for the comedy points, have it be that they're watching a lewd movie together with Kayto being surprised Chigara has any interest in that kinda stuff, and that the sounds of that were what Asaga heard and she jumped to conclusions - like a classic trope-worthy anime-style misunderstanding. Something that would take six or so lines of dialouge at minimum. Wouldn't even need a new CG - just Chigara's sprite looking embarrassed while Kayto comments). -Step Four: Alter the confrontation between Asaga and Chigara where Chigara just admits she loves him instead of that she slept with him (she'll get too angry with Asaga's accusations to explain she never did sleep with him. This would be maybe four lines at least). -Step Five: Add a single new CG where Kayto hugs Chigara back to her senses instead of kissing her back to her senses (I could only see two line of dialouge being needed here).
It's more satisfying then it was before, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being hopeful. Hell, he could even trumpet that as being a selling point - each chapter lets you lock in or lock out of romancing a specific waifu. You can romance Chigara in chapter one, or abstain and instead start with a different girl in chapter two, or abstain again and be with someone else in chapter three and so-on. Would also take pressure off later games because he wouldn't need to fit five arcs into one installment if prior games took care of two or three route-payoffs beforehand.
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Post by wingcapt4 on Mar 10, 2016 21:02:15 GMT -8
Not really much of a feedback regarding v2.0's content, but I have some things for Sunrider in general that I've always wanted to point out but keep forgetting. Since I saw some of these things in v2.0, I was reminded once again to point them out, and because this thread is quite the hot topic right now, I figured posting this here would make it high vis to the devs. Mods, feel free to move it if you feel it's inappropriate. Anyway, these are regarding the terms that are being used in the writing. They are just minor things and are purely for technical/stylistic reasons; not much impact on the story, except to make it correct (in some cases) and a bit more authentic, I guess. For technical correctness: Bogey = unidentified contact in radar or visual. You don't call a confirmed enemy contact a "bogey", which the game incorrectly does; there's another term for that. (sorry if my tone came out strong here, but this one actually bothers me a fair bit, lol) Bandit = confirmed enemy or if the unknown contact displays hostile intent (i.e. actually shooting at you). It can even be further broken down depending on the type of ordinance the enemy is carrying, if known (i.e. "Bandit Radar/Heat" if carrying radar guided or heat seeking ordinance respectively). Friendly = as the term implies
For authenticity of the setting: Maybe have another term for the personnel serving aboard the ships instead of using "sailors"? Maybe "astronauts" (Alliance, some neutral worlds near Alliance territory), and "cosmonauts" (PACT and neutral worlds bordering PACT). US Air Force personnel are called "airmen", so maybe "spacemen"? I also know that USAF space operators are also called "Space Warriors", which could also be used, maybe. IRL, that is such an unknown term that only personnel who are in space ops know the term, kinda like how a majority of the average folks don't know that the US Marines are also called "Devil Dogs".
For currency, although "credits" is a staple term of the genre, I think it'd be unique to use something else. I'm thinking that since Ryuvia was modeled after Rome, maybe use Roman currency as a vestige of the lasting influence that the old Ryuvian empire left in the galaxy? Something like "Denarius" (plural "denarii"), which was a silver coin. But then, the in-game currency actually uses the "$" sign, so in keeping with that symbol, maybe use "Siliqua" (plural "siliquae". "siliquas" can also be used as plural form, but is historically incorrect). Siliqua was a silver coin that went into circulation much later in the Roman Empire, and is much smaller than the denarius.
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Post by eider on Mar 10, 2016 21:45:52 GMT -8
I'm confused by your first phrase; both him and me (if it wasn't clear) liked the return of the star-map because it does a better job relating scenes and improving the flow through a bit of classic illusion of choice. I think both him and me argued that it actually was important even if it doesn't feel important, which is kinda the opposite of what you say? He said that while that he likes the return of the map, I don't recall him saying that the "illusion of choice" was really maintained here. If that was wrong, then sorry. But I said the opposite of you because, unlike the prior games, it really doesn't feel like that "illusion" is there like in the past games - absence of dialouge choices and RPG conversation menus when talking to characters and the like make it feel more a gimmick then a functional element. My point was - it's an illusion but a very important one and the one that player actually asked about and waited for. Personally, i actually like it - can't really explain it as i know it doesn't add much, but i just like how it interrupts linear story for a moment. And yes, while it doesn't carry nearly the same power as in MoA - it's still something important. Chigara romance is there for a plot development, not as real romance - especially given we see only like... one CG of 'that'? Answering the question about hugging Chigara to interrupt Alice mindstream control instead of kissing her - personally i would consider it a plot-hole - please refer to Veniczar novel (actually, now V2.0 hints it too) to understand better how Alice thinks - i don't think hugging would suit it. Also i would imagine the romance was there because love it's one of the strongest emotions - something worth fighting for that anyone can understand when playing game and we need something like that to give Chigara that something to fight about and actually break free from being completely controller - again i personally think that a friendship relation with Shields wouldn't be enough or it would be stretching it way too far in a convenient way. It's also something to shake off Shields rather strong - again i imagine sole friendship wouldn't be enough for that. Oh, and as to calling Claude 'god' - try thinking about her more as a Star Trek's Q - she fits that role pretty well in my opinion and from point of view of someone like Sola - she is literally god (as much as she is for a monkey).
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 22:20:24 GMT -8
He said that while that he likes the return of the map, I don't recall him saying that the "illusion of choice" was really maintained here. If that was wrong, then sorry. But I said the opposite of you because, unlike the prior games, it really doesn't feel like that "illusion" is there like in the past games - absence of dialouge choices and RPG conversation menus when talking to characters and the like make it feel more a gimmick then a functional element. My point was - it's an illusion but a very important one and the one that player actually asked about and waited for. Personally, i actually like it - can't really explain it as i know it doesn't add much, but i just like how it interrupts linear story for a moment. And yes, while it doesn't carry nearly the same power as in MoA - it's still something important. Chigara romance is there for a plot development, not as real romance - especially given we see only like... one CG of 'that'? Answering the question about hugging Chigara to interrupt Alice mindstream control instead of kissing her - personally i would consider it a plot-hole - please refer to Veniczar novel (actually, now V2.0 hints it too) to understand better how Alice thinks - i don't think hugging would suit it. Also i would imagine the romance was there because love it's one of the strongest emotions - something worth fighting for that anyone can understand when playing game and we need something like that to give Chigara that something to fight about and actually break free from being completely controller - again i personally think that a friendship relation with Shields wouldn't be enough or it would be stretching it way too far in a convenient way. It's also something to shake off Shields rather strong - again i imagine sole friendship wouldn't be enough for that. Oh, and as to calling Claude 'god' - try thinking about her more as a Star Trek's Q - she fits that role pretty well in my opinion and from point of view of someone like Sola - she is literally god (as much as she is for a monkey). Thing is - it's pretty widely been taken as BAD plot development, and it's plot development that can still happen REGARDLESS of if it's a romantic or platonic relationship. I have seen the Veniczar novel - and it has no bearing at all on what I said. I think its more about Chigara's willpower against Alice, bolstered by Kayto's pleading and reinforcing her - it's how Kayto affects and reawakens CHIGARA, and changing the way he did it wouldn't open a plot hole in the absolute slightest.
See, the thing about that is that 'love' takes many different forms - if we're honest, the entire crew of the Sunrider pretty much loves each-other without doing so in a romantic sense, or at least that's the case with most of the girls towards each-other. IDK why or how everyone so completely misunderstands this, but I am NOT and NEVER WAS asking for Kayto to not 'love' Chigara - only that there be a choice between loving her like a girlfriend/wife and loving her like a sibling/adoptive family, with the in-game explanation being that Chigara's filled the void where Maray was as Kayto's support (the best she can at least). Might be personal belief speaking, but I really don't think Chigara's so shallow as to NEED Kayto to be banging her for his words to reach her - just that he cares about her and sees as family, be it sibling or romantic partner. Chigara's the only person Kayto's confided his personal emotional troubles to outside of Ava - that's not "sole friendship"; that's "surrogate sister" or "girlfriend", and having the choice to make Chigara be one or the other wouldn't have impacted the overall plot. He would still love and rely on her - it's just a difference in how it's expressed.
And that's kind of a bad comparison since Star Trek's Q IS tantamount to "God" (omnipotence, unlimited power, immortal, ect).
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Post by eider on Mar 10, 2016 23:12:13 GMT -8
Thing is - it's pretty widely been taken as BAD plot development, and it's plot development that can still happen REGARDLESS of if it's a romantic or platonic relationship. I have seen the Veniczar novel - and it has no bearing at all on what I said. I think its more about Chigara's willpower against Alice, bolstered by Kayto's pleading and reinforcing her - it's how Kayto affects and reawakens CHIGARA, and changing the way he did it wouldn't open a plot hole in the absolute slightest. I believe that kiss makes more of a dent in Alice than in Chigara, allowing Chigara to free herself for a moment and fight Alice because of it. Normally Alice would had too much control over Chigara. And if you consider that, it's fairly impossible for Shield to shake off Alice by simply hugging Chigara, she needs something more powerful and her love she developed for Arcadius is a perfect spot.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 10, 2016 23:32:38 GMT -8
Thing is - it's pretty widely been taken as BAD plot development, and it's plot development that can still happen REGARDLESS of if it's a romantic or platonic relationship. I have seen the Veniczar novel - and it has no bearing at all on what I said. I think its more about Chigara's willpower against Alice, bolstered by Kayto's pleading and reinforcing her - it's how Kayto affects and reawakens CHIGARA, and changing the way he did it wouldn't open a plot hole in the absolute slightest. I believe that kiss makes more of a dent in Alice than in Chigara, allowing Chigara to free herself for a moment and fight Alice because of it. Normally Alice would had too much control over Chigara. And if you consider that, it's fairly impossible for Shield to shake off Alice by simply hugging Chigara, she needs something more powerful and her love she developed for Arcadius is a perfect spot. I disagree for the fact that, again, it looks more about Chigara's will overpowering Alice's. That's more of a triumph for her character over her "sister" narratively - that she had the strength to overcome Alice because she didn't shun human companionship like Alice did. And once again, I do think a hug would have done it as much as a kiss because, again, I don't think Chigara is that shallow a character - Kayto proclaiming he cares about Chigara as family (or even loves her as family) would have been just as powerful. Him holding her close, head resting on hers, would be a mirror to when he first poured his heart out to her before Helion - that he trusted her to be unguarded with. Alice would be dented either way by Chigara's own love for Kayto, which I don't think changes or would have changed regardless of how Kayto saw her. Kayto and Chigara have already connected to the point that I don't think it matters if the love between them is platonic or romantic - it's a strong enough bond on it's own to push Alice back by then.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 11, 2016 2:24:45 GMT -8
Um, I don't recall Academy ever implying that dimension traveling was the result of divine or near-divine powers. In fact I'm pretty sure we were only ever shown it as being the product of technology, which would have hinted Claude having something more along the lines of a TARDIS, not physical cosmic superpowers. And I'm using the word "God" because the boot honestly fits given what we've just seen her do.
And that's just it - I'm not entirely against the "railroad romance". I'm against it not being optional, which is extremely easy to fix. I have no issue with it being the only romance available this time around - it's that Kayto's bond with Chigara has nothing that makes it work any more or less as a platonic-sibling bond then it does as a romantic-lover bond. A few extra lines of dialouge and maybe one single CG could fix the entirety of the remaining story complaints regarding that. Hell, make it a selling point for each game - romance Chigara in chapter one, abstain from that and you can romance someone else in chapter two, abstain both times and you can romance someone else in chapter three, ect. It would also take pressure off by axing the need to make five separate routes for the final game or whatever if you split the available routes between each chapter. Well, Clarke's third law, duh. It's pretty obvious Claude's powers come from technology, she seems to at least have been born as a human; all the she gives the prototypes is technology in fact. And, again, it's pretty obvious the Ryuvians basically venerate technology: genetic engineering? A power exclusive to royalty which is "blasphemous" when used by somebody who shouldn't. A gem programmed to recognize a certain bloodline? A royal treasure passed through generations. An overly powerful mighty weapon? A secret relic which requires a royal sacrifice to activate. The administrator rights of that most powerful technology and having that said genetic engineering? The mandate to rule over the Galaxy and be venerated as God.
And really, Claude has never done anything beyond what we know Lost Technology does. Moving through dimensions? The wishall. Time travel? The engine that Crow mentioned. Teleportation? Short range warp. Miniaturization powerful enough and she can do all of that without seeming like she's carrying anything (nanomachines, everyone?) Really, the only odd thing is her immortality, and that's literally her distinguishing feature; she's basically achieved what during all this years the Ryuvian emperor failed to do. That's why Sola referred to her as a god.
I personally don't like the term that much, because it seems related with omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence, which is something she clearly doesn't have. I like more "deity", because it bring to mind polytheistic religions with their gods with more limited powers. But really, she's basically a more powerful "The Doctor" with boobs.
Also, a railroaded romance is not optional. It's there, in "railroaded" (there's a reason "railroaded" is normally a pejorative term).
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 11, 2016 2:37:39 GMT -8
Um, I don't recall Academy ever implying that dimension traveling was the result of divine or near-divine powers. In fact I'm pretty sure we were only ever shown it as being the product of technology, which would have hinted Claude having something more along the lines of a TARDIS, not physical cosmic superpowers. And I'm using the word "God" because the boot honestly fits given what we've just seen her do.
And that's just it - I'm not entirely against the "railroad romance". I'm against it not being optional, which is extremely easy to fix. I have no issue with it being the only romance available this time around - it's that Kayto's bond with Chigara has nothing that makes it work any more or less as a platonic-sibling bond then it does as a romantic-lover bond. A few extra lines of dialouge and maybe one single CG could fix the entirety of the remaining story complaints regarding that. Hell, make it a selling point for each game - romance Chigara in chapter one, abstain from that and you can romance someone else in chapter two, abstain both times and you can romance someone else in chapter three, ect. It would also take pressure off by axing the need to make five separate routes for the final game or whatever if you split the available routes between each chapter. Well, Clarke's third law, duh. It's pretty obvious Claude's powers come from technology, she seems to at least have been born as a human; all the she gives the prototypes is technology in fact. And, again, it's pretty obvious the Ryuvians basically venerate technology: genetic engineering? A power exclusive to royalty which is "blasphemous" when used by somebody who shouldn't. A gem programmed to recognize a certain bloodline? A royal treasure passed through generations. An overly powerful mighty weapon? A secret relic which requires a royal sacrifice to activate. The administrator rights of that most powerful technology and having that said genetic engineering? The mandate to rule over the Galaxy and be venerated as God.
And really, Claude has never done anything beyond what we know Lost Technology does. Moving through dimensions? The wishall. Time travel? The engine that Crow mentioned. Teleportation? Short range warp. Miniaturization powerful enough and she can do all of that without seeming like she's carrying anything (nanomachines, everyone?) Really, the only odd thing is her immortality, and that's literally her distinguishing feature; she's basically achieved what during all this years the Ryuvian emperor failed to do. That's why Sola referred to her as a god.
I personally don't like the term that much, because it seems related with omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence, which is something she clearly doesn't have. I like more "deity", because it bring to mind polytheistic religions with their gods with more limited powers. But really, she's basically a more powerful "The Doctor" with boobs.
Also, a railroaded romance is not optional. It's there, in "railroaded" (there's a reason "railroaded" is normally a pejorative term).
Not from what we saw so far. If those powers stem from physically-ingrained abilities (implanted or otherwise), it's practically the same as being an artificial Q - she still fits the distinction of "God" more then "Time Lord" so far. All those things you mentioned required rather complex, intricate or even large-scale components to make work - doing it all on her own; that's about as close to the definition of "God" as you can get. The only thing she'd need do to seal it is breathe life into clay bodies. Again, I used that term because those things (omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence) DO seem to fit her at the moment given her actions, and until the magician's tricks are explained as otherwise, Sola's distinction hardly seems undeserved. ... I can't tell if you missed the point I was making or not - I was saying that it shouldn't have been railroaded. You toted the "illusion of choice" being an important reason why the galaxy and ship maps returning was good - I feel the same should be applied regarding Kayto's love for Chigara; giving it a distinction between "romance love" and "sibling love" would have made the railroad love more tolerable because you have some degree of agency. Kayto and Chigara would still have the same deep-rooted bond of love that serves as a plot-point for LD - you'd just choose how it's expressed, Chigara the girlfriend or Chigara the sister. The outcome could be the same both ways, but I doubt there'd be complaints because the player would have felt there was some direction in things - and coupled with the new endings, it would rectify the entirety of the issues people had with the current section of story.
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 11, 2016 3:18:09 GMT -8
Not from what we saw so far. If those powers stem from physically-ingrained abilities (implanted or otherwise), it's practically the same as being an artificial Q - she still fits the distinction of "God" more then "Time Lord" so far. All those things you mentioned required rather complex, intricate or even large-scale components to make work - doing it all on her own; that's about as close to the definition of "God" as you can get. The only thing she'd need do to seal it is breathe life into clay bodies. Again, I used that term because those things (omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence) DO seem to fit her at the moment given her actions, and until the magician's tricks are explained as otherwise, Sola's distinction hardly seems undeserved.
... I can't tell if you missed the point I was making or not - I was saying that it shouldn't have been railroaded. You toted the "illusion of choice" being an important reason why the galaxy and ship maps returning was good - I feel the same should be applied regarding Kayto's love for Chigara; giving it a distinction between "romance love" and "sibling love" would have made the railroad love more tolerable because you have some degree of agency. Kayto and Chigara would still have the same deep-rooted bond of love that serves as a plot-point for LD - you'd just choose how it's expressed, Chigara the girlfriend or Chigara the sister. The outcome could be the same both ways, but I doubt there'd be complaints because the player would have felt there was some direction in things - and coupled with the new endings, it would rectify the entirety of the issues people had with the current section of story. Well, I see the distinction as important, but if you think those powers already define "God", then where are the "plot-holes" and problems with it? And what part doesn't fit what we saw in Academia? She's just basically the apex of what Ryuvian Emperor tried to do for millennia. Where's the problem in one of them actually succeeding? She simply decided that she didn't want to be an emperor or venerated or anything like that, and used her powers to just have fun (because that's clearly what Claude is aiming for, besides the whole "saving the universe" things).
And the railroading thing was a joke aimed at you repeating "railroaded romance" like that. Yeah, as I said before, we get it, you have said it I think 6 times now and people have already told you what they thought.
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Post by Histidine on Mar 11, 2016 6:36:30 GMT -8
Two brief thoughts on implications of removing the railroad romance: Chigara not in fact being romantically involved with Kayto would make Asaga in her jealousy arc look really ridiculous (even more so than she already does, I mean).
If we had an unlimited rewrite budget, perhaps we could ditch the whole romantic jealousy thing ("who even says things like 'V card'?!") and just focus on Sharr'saga's fear that Chigara is a Prototype and a traitor. I'd have thought Asaga would have already given Kayto up romantically by the time of the beach episode back at the start of MoA anyway (seeing as how she goes along with the "get the Captain and Chigara together" thing). Although then the part where she turns hostile seems really irrational (it already is, but jealousy is supposed to be irrational).
Hug Chigara? Kiss Chigara? Bah.
Just have Alice admit she's mindjacking Chigara (since she's doing all that villainous boasting anyway) and let Kayto decide: shoot her, or try to talk her out of it? If you pick the latter, Fontana comes in mid way and does the Renegade Interrupt for you. Chigara can even break free of the control (something something trauma) and say one last thing to Kayto before she dies.
Yes, I like taking things I like and making them Darker and Edgier than they need to be (ask me about my idea for a Valkyria Chronicles sequel sometime), why do you ask?
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Post by Marx-93 on Mar 11, 2016 6:53:38 GMT -8
("who even says things like 'V card'?!")
I fully admit having laughed at that way too much!! It seemed to fit Asaga in a strange way (also, most eroge heroines are way too pure and virginal and proud of it, so having her worry about that was kinda fun).
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aesr
Civilian
Posts: 4
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Post by aesr on Mar 11, 2016 9:34:13 GMT -8
I didn't care for the ship map, I liked the english battle voices addition, and I love the extra 30-35 mins of dialoogue that revealed some grade a stuff. Yall pumped it out fast and I appreciate that, but some of the stuff that happened in v1.0 and v2.0 could of waited till the next installment, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. V2.0 happened almost like I predicted it would, almost. Thanks for working so hard.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 11, 2016 12:02:02 GMT -8
Not from what we saw so far. If those powers stem from physically-ingrained abilities (implanted or otherwise), it's practically the same as being an artificial Q - she still fits the distinction of "God" more then "Time Lord" so far. All those things you mentioned required rather complex, intricate or even large-scale components to make work - doing it all on her own; that's about as close to the definition of "God" as you can get. The only thing she'd need do to seal it is breathe life into clay bodies. Again, I used that term because those things (omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence) DO seem to fit her at the moment given her actions, and until the magician's tricks are explained as otherwise, Sola's distinction hardly seems undeserved.
... I can't tell if you missed the point I was making or not - I was saying that it shouldn't have been railroaded. You toted the "illusion of choice" being an important reason why the galaxy and ship maps returning was good - I feel the same should be applied regarding Kayto's love for Chigara; giving it a distinction between "romance love" and "sibling love" would have made the railroad love more tolerable because you have some degree of agency. Kayto and Chigara would still have the same deep-rooted bond of love that serves as a plot-point for LD - you'd just choose how it's expressed, Chigara the girlfriend or Chigara the sister. The outcome could be the same both ways, but I doubt there'd be complaints because the player would have felt there was some direction in things - and coupled with the new endings, it would rectify the entirety of the issues people had with the current section of story. Well, I see the distinction as important, but if you think those powers already define "God", then where are the "plot-holes" and problems with it? And what part doesn't fit what we saw in Academia? She's just basically the apex of what Ryuvian Emperor tried to do for millennia. Where's the problem in one of them actually succeeding? She simply decided that she didn't want to be an emperor or venerated or anything like that, and used her powers to just have fun (because that's clearly what Claude is aiming for, besides the whole "saving the universe" things).
And the railroading thing was a joke aimed at you repeating "railroaded romance" like that. Yeah, as I said before, we get it, you have said it I think 6 times now and people have already told you what they thought.
Why reveal herself now, for one. How is this expected to be balanced in future installments for another, now that it's out, is the second. Third is how what she's done is even remotely possible on the scale she's done it. And again, Academy only ever pointed to there being rather obvious pieces of technology involved when it came to this - not the seemingly physical abilities Claude has displayed. "The Traveler" was hinted to being more like Sola - traveling through time - not a wandering God/deity/whatever the hell definition you seem to think she does or doesn't qualify for. Her having power to that extent comes across as both convenient and abrupt - or at least the way it was exposed. And yet people still somehow keep misunderstanding me entirely. They seem to think I'm asking for it to be axed entirely. It was simply asking to have there be a choice in HOW Kayto loved Chigara. Hell, I go to the Steam page and I STILL see people asking that this one element be fixed - that it's STILL tripping up their experience even with the post-endgame stuff. That it's just, to quote one of the commenters, "a painfully forced fling". Making it optional... it really wouldn't be hard, nor would it affect the plot. And it seems like a lot of people would approve/appreciate it.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Mar 11, 2016 12:11:41 GMT -8
Two brief thoughts on implications of removing the railroad romance: Chigara not in fact being romantically involved with Kayto would make Asaga in her jealousy arc look really ridiculous (even more so than she already does, I mean).
If we had an unlimited rewrite budget, perhaps we could ditch the whole romantic jealousy thing ("who even says things like 'V card'?!") and just focus on Sharr'saga's fear that Chigara is a Prototype and a traitor. I'd have thought Asaga would have already given Kayto up romantically by the time of the beach episode back at the start of MoA anyway (seeing as how she goes along with the "get the Captain and Chigara together" thing). Although then the part where she turns hostile seems really irrational (it already is, but jealousy is supposed to be irrational).
Hug Chigara? Kiss Chigara? Bah.
Just have Alice admit she's mindjacking Chigara (since she's doing all that villainous boasting anyway) and let Kayto decide: shoot her, or try to talk her out of it? If you pick the latter, Fontana comes in mid way and does the Renegade Interrupt for you. Chigara can even break free of the control (something something trauma) and say one last thing to Kayto before she dies.
Yes, I like taking things I like and making them Darker and Edgier than they need to be (ask me about my idea for a Valkyria Chronicles sequel sometime), why do you ask? I don't see how. I really don't - Chigara's still the closest person to him on the crew. Kayto shares his personal issues with her. He has her in his cabin all the time. Giving anyone that kind of specific attention, REGARDLESS of it being romantic or not, wouldn't make Asaga's jealousy look any more or less ridiculous. Add that to her 'Sharr' mentality seeming to splinter her mind and Asaga making paranoid assumptions isn't that far of a stretch at all - they just wouldn't be right this time. Kayto loving Chigara too much to see the danger she represents isn't a problem at all - it works narratively and it doesn't need to be removed; it just needs the choice to express it as sibling love instead of romantic love and give it just enough "illusion of choice" to not make people feel like it's a forced love-story. And with the beach thing, Icari kinda threw her under the bus to say something to Chigara - either she betrays her best friend or betrays her own heart; that was where the bitterness first started. That sounds nice, but at the same time I think the best way to have shown how strong the bond between Kayto and Chigara was to have his actions break Alice's hold on her (I mean, it's already pretty obvious from the way she talks who it is controlling her). Though I'd totally spring for your idea too if I believed it could be made.
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Post by worstwaifu on Mar 11, 2016 16:37:15 GMT -8
It's certainly nice that the possibility for Chigara to be denied her bakery with Kayto exists now.
I mean, bakeries get you up so early in the morning to do your work, anyway. So droll.
We don't know how things will turn out in the next part(s) of the game(s), of course, but.
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