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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 15, 2016 14:07:36 GMT -8
Yo everyone, I just finished a playthrough and had a few points that could use some clarification:
1) What happens with Cosette if you save her but choose to scrap her ryder? Is she shoved into an escape pod too or does she die with the Sunrider? Either way she can't escape to rebuild her fleet I guess.
2) Why does Kayto see the ghost of his little sister in child form when making his suicidal charge? The last glimpse he had of her while she was alive was of an adult not a child according to the MoA flashback no?
3) What happened to Asaga's Sharr personality? Seems she just vanished without a trace after that situation with Chigara was resolved, but that doesn't really make sense considering what happens during the Cosette battle.
4) Icari went to the black market to get us a new store, Ava and Asaga are getting a new ship, Kryska is probably going to get herself imprisoned in a naive attempt to make ammends with the Alliance and Sola is guarding Kayto in the hideout, so what is Claude up to while everyone else is busy make preparations?
5) Is the "Farari bitch" mentioned by Crow's henchman Claude? I don't think so considering she was already around before they warped and he says that she was "caught up" with them but I would like to hear what you guys think about this.
Many thanks in advance for answers!
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Post by valikdu on Apr 16, 2016 8:30:27 GMT -8
Yo everyone, I just finished a playthrough and had a few points that could use some clarification: 1) What happens with Cosette if you save her but choose to scrap her ryder? Is she shoved into an escape pod too or does she die with the Sunrider? Either way she can't escape to rebuild her fleet I guess. 2) Why does Kayto see the ghost of his little sister in child form when making his suicidal charge? The last glimpse he had of her while she was alive was of an adult not a child according to the MoA flashback no? 3) What happened to Asaga's Sharr personality? Seems she just vanished without a trace after that situation with Chigara was resolved, but that doesn't really make sense considering what happens during the Cosette battle. 4) Icari went to the black market to get us a new store, Ava and Asaga are getting a new ship, Kryska is probably going to get herself imprisoned in a naive attempt to make ammends with the Alliance and Sola is guarding Kayto in the hideout, so what is Claude up to while everyone else is busy make preparations? 5) Is the "Farari bitch" mentioned by Crow's henchman Claude? I don't think so considering she was already around before they warped and he says that she was "caught up" with them but I would like to hear what you guys think about this. Many thanks in advance for answers! 1) Um. I'd like to know that, as well. 2) It think is't just because anime. 3) I think we'll be seeing it again. She doesn't say it's gone, so it's not gone. 4) Trying to screw Kayto, probably. 5) I think it's Sola.
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Post by Somasam on Apr 16, 2016 9:06:41 GMT -8
1. Would also like to request this knowledge as well.
3. I think we could assume three things happened to the Sharr. Either Asaga just ended up getting full control over her awakened state over the course of Libday and is no longer influenced by it; She isn't directly controlled by it anymore, but it still has lingering psychological effects that influence her indirectly; or it is just bidding its time and will come up again the next time the battle is looking dire or Asaga once again lets jealousy and doubts control her mind.
4. It would be nice to have actually gotten some more stuff between when Claude showed up and Kayto went planetside. Though I did like the scene ending on Ava's line like it did. We only see her reappear and then hear Sola's and Katyo's thoughts on here after the fact. Perhaps she went back to that one planet she was originally visiting? Or perhaps she is just hanging around with the rest of the crew, ditzing around like she usually is.
5. It is definitely Sola. The main man is Harbor Crow, the 'usurper' prince that Sola talked about in conversations in FA and MoA. They were probably in the same battle as Sola and the Sharr Loc(or whatever the Ryuvian super weapon was called) and when they time traveled, Sola and the rest of the two ryuvian fleets got transported and dumped in the current time line, with only Sola left alive. Farari is probably the name of Sola's Faction during that war.
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Post by 白龍 on Apr 16, 2016 21:12:00 GMT -8
I swore I thought the Farari b*tch was Claude...
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Post by marioo on Apr 17, 2016 7:44:47 GMT -8
1. Anyone played with this scenario? Ava always goes to the prison (where she notices that Lynn is gone), so I guess they'd take her to an escape pod, but I don't know for sure.
2. Propably just a continuity error. Although one could argue that since she's his little sister she'll always be a little child in heart.
3. Well, after that we didn't really have a situation in which she would have a reason to awaken. So we can't tell, but I doubt it's gone.
4. Good question, I thought she'd accompany Ava and Asaga. The same with all the faceless crewmembers. But I don't think it's explicitly stated.
5. I'd say it's Sola, too. We know there was a large battle when she left her own time which would explain the presence of Crow Harbor's fleet (or was it just one ship?).
But on the other hand: how would he know that Sola was transported through time? Maybe it's the same person that transported Crow through time. We know that the Ryuvians didn't have the technology for time travel so maybe it's Claude or someone we don't know yet who helped them.
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 18, 2016 13:23:14 GMT -8
Thanks again for the answers everyone.
1) So I guess no one played that specific scenario with Cosette yet, maybe I'll do it myself on the easiest difficult later for the sake of curiosity and to get some missing achievements (it would be funny if it results in a bad end because she stole the last pod in that case hahaha).
2) Meh, I guess I'll have to just shrug that thing with child/adult Maray off then, no real reason for any of that...
3) Hmmm, didn't Asaga awaken again in the battle against Alice though? Didn't see any signs of the Sharr personality during that one, she seemed fully in control of herself.
4) Maybe Claude is creating a plan to trap Kayto in that new DLC content meanwhile? There's literally not a clue about what she is doing after she teleports into the cargo freighter.
5) Good points on the Farari being Sola, but I thought she was transported to the future before Crow and his crew did their jump at all? I mean they said the Farari got caught with them, but both Sola and Claude were already around before they appeared, plus they seemed to use some technological device to make a jump and someone destroyed it right after so they can't warp back, while it seems that it was Claude that used her powers to warp both Sola and herself. But I do agree that it's most likely Sola and I'm probably just reading too much into it.
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Post by Marx-93 on Apr 18, 2016 13:41:27 GMT -8
3) From the beginning, it's not clear if Asaga's Sharr personality really exists or was simply an illusion as a way to cope with her new power, the fact she had killed Cosette like she did and was suspecting Chigara like she did. Neither Sola nor Alice had anything remotely similar; the first was a Sharr too (and more "official" than Asaga) and the second had the same awakening power.
I could believe some kind of "genetic" personality, but what few we see is basically Asaga's passion for justice and jealousy crystallized, and nothing remotely asking her to restore Ryuvia and make everyone bow to her. Remember too that, since the prototypes revealed themselves, Asaga unconsciously detected that Chigara's brain hyperwaves were identical to the prototype ones. It seems fitting that, not having a rational reason to suspect Chigara, she dumped all of her "bad emotions" into a fabricated personality.
As the game progressed and she started actually believing Chigara was the traitor and her jealousy getting even stronger, the need for that kind of thing subsided; the feelings more or less passed to the "main personality" (not that she actually had split personalities, she was probably trying to trick herself to ease her feelings of guilt).
5) I'm pretty sure it's Sola.
The Nightmare Ascendant, of which Claude is basically hinted to be the original owner, was said to have fought against the Farari in an Ancient Battle. Besides that, Crow clearly says with all the hate possible, so it's clear the Farari were his opponents on the Civil War, of which Sola was the main commander on battle. It's also pretty much implied he traveled in time to avoid the Shar'lac blast that would have killed him, so Sola seems the more likely choice. The difference in time might be owing to some malfunction; it's even pointed that Crow initially traveled to the past before going to the future, and he actually wanted to return to his present.
Besides that, from what Sola and Alpha say, Claude could probably kill Crow pretty easily if she felt like it.
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 18, 2016 14:03:52 GMT -8
The strange thing with Asaga's Sharr personality is that at times it seems that it's a split personality that occasionally takes complete control of her body and the normal Asaga has no idea about what she is doing meanwhile, like when you save Cosette from being killed she is genuinely confused as to why the Havoc is wrecked, and that she actually "talks" with herself. But at other times she just awakens and is in full control and no trace of any distortions in her personality, like in the battle where she turns on you, she doesn't start speaking in the more "dignified" way the Sharr Asaga does nor starts spouting about justice and whatever, she just goes after Chigara in a paranoid rage and knows fully well what she did. That's why I was wondering if we will ever see that personality again or if it was just a temporary thing.
I think that twist about Claude being a "goddess" kinda dumb, why make her such an overpowered entity instead of a "normal" time traveler via some ancient technology? Like the Alpha prototype said the only reason why she doesn't fix everything is because she doesn't want to and chooses to pursue frivolities instead... and considering Crow is an anomaly in that timeline she had all the more reason to erase him without being worried about paradoxes and stuff, just like Sola claims she would probably do to her eventually.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 18, 2016 22:20:04 GMT -8
3) From the beginning, it's not clear if Asaga's Sharr personality really exists or was simply an illusion as a way to cope with her new power, the fact she had killed Cosette like she did and was suspecting Chigara like she did. Neither Sola nor Alice had anything remotely similar; the first was a Sharr too (and more "official" than Asaga) and the second had the same awakening power. I could believe some kind of "genetic" personality, but what few we see is basically Asaga's passion for justice and jealousy crystallized, and nothing remotely asking her to restore Ryuvia and make everyone bow to her. Remember too that, since the prototypes revealed themselves, Asaga unconsciously detected that Chigara's brain hyperwaves were identical to the prototype ones. It seems fitting that, not having a rational reason to suspect Chigara, she dumped all of her "bad emotions" into a fabricated personality. As the game progressed and she started actually believing Chigara was the traitor and her jealousy getting even stronger, the need for that kind of thing subsided; the feelings more or less passed to the "main personality" (not that she actually had split personalities, she was probably trying to trick herself to ease her feelings of guilt). 5) I'm pretty sure it's Sola. The Nightmare Ascendant, of which Claude is basically hinted to be the original owner, was said to have fought against the Farari in an Ancient Battle. Besides that, Crow clearly says with all the hate possible, so it's clear the Farari were his opponents on the Civil War, of which Sola was the main commander on battle. It's also pretty much implied he traveled in time to avoid the Shar'lac blast that would have killed him, so Sola seems the more likely choice. The difference in time might be owing to some malfunction; it's even pointed that Crow initially traveled to the past before going to the future, and he actually wanted to return to his present. Besides that, from what Sola and Alpha say, Claude could probably kill Crow pretty easily if she felt like it. 3) Keep in mind though that we never saw Sola in the first days or weeks of having that power unlocked, and neither one of them are a "pure-blood" like Asaga is and is therefore arguably "incomplete" compared to her - plus, unlike Asaga, Sola kept her passions in check (possibly even to avoid this kind of thing). And Alice is actually counterproductive to your point since, just like Asaga, she was driven insane by unfulfilled love and had other personalities in her head (by way of the Prototype Hivemind) - if anything Alice could be seen as evidence TOWARDS the "Sharr" genes breeding insanity from uncontrolled emotions, not against it. Maybe being a "true" Sharr with an uncompromised bloodline affected Asaga's psyche differently - enough so as to have her either develop a split personality or, as you said just now, to compartmentalize her feelings and hallucinate the "Sharr" as a coping mechanism. Granted, I agree that it's a far more interesting thing to have then simple schizophrenia or some acclimatization to activated super-genes, but there's still just too many gaps to say one way or the other for sure at this point. 5) That begs the question though of what Farari actually means, though - was it a factional title for the "loyalists"? Was it a family title - Sola's father, maybe? Was it the Ryvuian word for the royalty? Speaking of that, I'm also going to agree with longtimelurker about Claude - compared to what was known about "the Traveler", a literal god was a bit beyond the scope of what was expected. And please don't say that's not the case - Claude is (A) able to survive the vacuum of space and a nuclear meltdown with her only complaints being it's bad for her skin, (B) can warp between times and dimensions which makes her pretty much omnipotent and omnipresent, and (C) the Alpha Prototype herself says that Claude could, if she chose to, remake the entire universe herself. Immortal, (Near) Omnipotent, (Near) Omnipresent and can manipulate matter and creation at will. That is what people would call a God - something far beyond the simple time-traveler she was hinted to be. So where does she fit into all of this?
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Post by Marx-93 on Apr 19, 2016 1:20:21 GMT -8
Alice's insanity is present from her first day though, long before she actually reveals or use her awakening; her personality doesn't change in the slightest when Awakening. If something, she actually supports it: she's been consumed by love the same as Asaga and like her it doesn't show by something like a split personality take over, but simply as her original personality going mad from grief (jealousy in Asaga's case). Her superblood could have some relation tough, for sure. Just like the brain hyper waves, she probably unconsciously detects a lot more things (be it through enhanced senses or whatever), and making another personality that just "knows" it and justifies her tremendous increase in power could make sense for her. Asaga in a way continues being very childish and naive after all. The strange thing with Asaga's Sharr personality is that at times it seems that it's a split personality that occasionally takes complete control of her body and the normal Asaga has no idea about what she is doing meanwhile, like when you save Cosette from being killed she is genuinely confused as to why the Havoc is wrecked, and that she actually "talks" with herself. But at other times she just awakens and is in full control and no trace of any distortions in her personality, like in the battle where she turns on you, she doesn't start speaking in the more "dignified" way the Sharr Asaga does nor starts spouting about justice and whatever, she just goes after Chigara in a paranoid rage and knows fully well what she did. That's why I was wondering if we will ever see that personality again or if it was just a temporary thing. To me, in perspective, it was clear her reaction after the Havoc was kinda when she "invented it": her speaking when she's taking down the Havoc is only slightly more refined than when she proclaimed herself as Sharr , and was acting surprisingly serious and even slightly arrogant during the whole battle (the voice acting shift is more due to initial bad voice acting than intended, from the previous battle Asaga was supposed to sound serious from the beginning). When she killed Cosette, she was acting just like the Sharrs she had seen in stories acted. It was only after that she realized she had killed her like that; personally, I see her confusion more as "did I really do that...?" than genuine confusion at "what the heck is happening". That's when she decided she couldn't have simply killed Cosette, and that when acting just like the Sharrs before it was precisely due to being a Sharr than any true fault on her. Behind the scenes on a meta sense, I personally think Asaga's personality was retconned as Samu-kun found himself without any space for it in his script and lukewarm reception. I said on another place why I thought this was particularly good change, but it could have been handed better, or you could disagree. On Claude, I'm not going to talk much about it. I personally don't see her as neither omnipresent (teleporting is not omnipresence, and it's actually very, very, far away from it) nor omnisicient, and that for me are the two more important attributes of any "god". I only see her as a Sharr who reached the dream of every Ryuvian Emperor; immortality and physical domain over everything. And as such she doesn't feel any allegiance to anything, simply helping when she feels like it. She could probably erase Crow, but doing that would probably require erasing Sola too and rewinding everything to before you meet her (or maybe even to Sola's time; maybe the result of that Civil war could even change) Execution of it is bad though, but that's more due to Sunrider failing at almost anything with nuance (except Ongess), specially on characters.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 19, 2016 8:49:13 GMT -8
Alice's insanity is present from her first day though, long before she actually reveals or use her awakening; her personality doesn't change in the slightest when Awakening. If something, she actually supports it: she's been consumed by love the same as Asaga and like her it doesn't show by something like a split personality take over, but simply as her original personality going mad from grief (jealousy in Asaga's case). Her superblood could have some relation tough, for sure. Just like the brain hyper waves, she probably unconsciously detects a lot more things (be it through enhanced senses or whatever), and making another personality that just "knows" it and justifies her tremendous increase in power could make sense for her. Asaga in a way continues being very childish and naive after all. The strange thing with Asaga's Sharr personality is that at times it seems that it's a split personality that occasionally takes complete control of her body and the normal Asaga has no idea about what she is doing meanwhile, like when you save Cosette from being killed she is genuinely confused as to why the Havoc is wrecked, and that she actually "talks" with herself. But at other times she just awakens and is in full control and no trace of any distortions in her personality, like in the battle where she turns on you, she doesn't start speaking in the more "dignified" way the Sharr Asaga does nor starts spouting about justice and whatever, she just goes after Chigara in a paranoid rage and knows fully well what she did. That's why I was wondering if we will ever see that personality again or if it was just a temporary thing. To me, in perspective, it was clear her reaction after the Havoc was kinda when she "invented it": her speaking when she's taking down the Havoc is only slightly more refined than when she proclaimed herself as Sharr , and was acting surprisingly serious and even slightly arrogant during the whole battle (the voice acting shift is more due to initial bad voice acting than intended, from the previous battle Asaga was supposed to sound serious from the beginning). When she killed Cosette, she was acting just like the Sharrs she had seen in stories acted. It was only after that she realized she had killed her like that; personally, I see her confusion more as "did I really do that...?" than genuine confusion at "what the heck is happening". That's when she decided she couldn't have simply killed Cosette, and that when acting just like the Sharrs before it was precisely due to being a Sharr than any true fault on her. Behind the scenes on a meta sense, I personally think Asaga's personality was retconned as Samu-kun found himself without any space for it in his script and lukewarm reception. I said on another place why I thought this was particularly good change, but it could have been handed better, or you could disagree. On Claude, I'm not going to talk much about it. I personally don't see her as neither omnipresent (teleporting is not omnipresence, and it's actually very, very, far away from it) nor omnisicient, and that for me are the two more important attributes of any "god". I only see her as a Sharr who reached the dream of every Ryuvian Emperor; immortality and physical domain over everything. And as such she doesn't feel any allegiance to anything, simply helping when she feels like it. She could probably erase Crow, but doing that would probably require erasing Sola too and rewinding everything to before you meet her (or maybe even to Sola's time; maybe the result of that Civil war could even change) Execution of it is bad though, but that's more due to Sunrider failing at almost anything with nuance (except Ongess), specially on characters. Not if the Veniczar novel is to be believed; Alice was shown to be pretty darn sane and even caring up until learning the truth about herself, after which she was driven insane by the reality of her creation. Meaning that it wasn't until after she started her path to madness that she seemed to get that power, so it's again the opposite - Alice counters your belief more then she supports it because her madness preceded her power. Especially since it could be argued that she fragmented her mind across the Prototypes in the process of controlling them. Again, it's a personal viewpoint, but I maintain that on meta grounds it was a very BAD change in regards to simply retconning it since it could have been utilized as a very interesting development tool - just ignoring it as though that never happened, I feel is a sloppy move in all honesty. In-universe though, there's still not enough to say one way or the other what exactly the "Sharr" was. She can be wherever she wants whenever she wants - that's not simple "teleporting" because that only defines going from one place to another, not shifting dimensions and time periods. That's pretty close to Omnipresence, and the only way to make it more-so is if she can actually stretch herself to multiple places at once - and based on what she's shown, that wouldn't be surprising. And that's something of a fallacy - the definition of immortality the Ryuvian Emperors chased after was more an immunity to aging. Claude seems to be immortal in terms of pure INVULNERABILITY, which is pretty much the ultimate definition of the term "immortal" and something you'd only associate with a divine entity. Hell, you're even contradicting yourself in a way - what the Ryuvians wanted WAS Godhood, so how is Claude being that make her any less of a God? Thing is, though... is that this is, if you ask me, blatantly untrue for the majority of Sunrider - save LibDay, that is.
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 19, 2016 18:39:50 GMT -8
Well, I got agree with SharrOfRyuvia here, inside the game there's not enough info to draw any conclusion about Asaga's distorted personality, and I gotta disagree with Marx that Asaga was faking her confusion during the fight with Cosette, she goes from "surrender Cosette-chan so we won't have to kill you" to "your mind is as twisted as your body, the Sharr of Ryuvia will cast you in eternal fire", even Cosette gets a bit confused with her sudden change in personality, but thanks for the answers on the meta reasons. It's kinda sad that they retconned it in such a manner, it was really poorly implemented and seemed contradictory at points, so I bet we won't be seeing Sharr Asaga again from this point on? It seemed to be an interesting subplot for Asaga's development.
Eh, even Sola says that the term that best defines Claude is a "God" due to her abilities to rewrite reality at will and being pretty much immortal, so I think it's kinda moot to argue that point. I mean, I knew something was fishy about Claude from the beginning but her being akin to a divine entity was a bit too over the top and creates unnecessary issues, like having to justify the fact that she doesn't fix everything by herself due to personality problems. If Crow can time travel using technology, surely the same would work for her no?
Finally, yeah, IMHO only LD suffers from such a degree bad execution, not the entire Sunrider series, I enjoyed FA and MoA much better than this last installment.
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Post by Techercizer on Apr 19, 2016 19:13:25 GMT -8
1) What happens with Cosette if you save her but choose to scrap her ryder? Is she shoved into an escape pod too or does she die with the Sunrider? Either way she can't escape to rebuild her fleet I guess. When I did this, she never offered to help the Sunrider fight, but she still escaped in her Ryder as it went down. Choosing not to restore her rider just leaves it half-finished rusting in the hangar, but I guess it still works well enough to fly away in after a prison break.
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 19, 2016 21:01:50 GMT -8
1) What happens with Cosette if you save her but choose to scrap her ryder? Is she shoved into an escape pod too or does she die with the Sunrider? Either way she can't escape to rebuild her fleet I guess. When I did this, she never offered to help the Sunrider fight, but she still escaped in her Ryder as it went down. Choosing not to restore her rider just leaves it half-finished rusting in the hangar, but I guess it still works well enough to fly away in after a prison break. Oh okay, many thanks for the answer! Seems a bit strange considering variable for the option you choose is scrapHavoc (i.e. destroy it for parts), the Havoc was in a non-functional state and Ava orders the crew to clear the bay after the event, but I guess that's that.
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Post by Marx-93 on Apr 20, 2016 1:31:03 GMT -8
Sunrider can't into nuance from the very beginning (with the particular exception of Ongess, but that case is special, and even then it's kinda a trick? I planned to spend quite a bit of space in this issue on my next part of my writing analysis ): that's not to say it's bad, because it isn't, but there's never been a moment when a character's been particularly complex, and the same extends to plot developments. The narrative and characters have always been very straightforward, even in MoA. Even most of the moral decisions end being extremely clear-cut.
I agree that Asaga's is probably a "depending on the reader" thing, everyone will see it differently.
However, on Claude I think that we simply lack too many information to state clearly what she is. Is she really invincible, or can she just simply teleport instantly? Can she rewrite all reality accurately, or just with broad strokes (because, with what she says, you could argue that anyone with a reliable time machine can "rewrite reality") Sola proclaims her as a god, but she is an Ancient Ryuvian who thought of her Emperor as close to godhood as you can be and venerates technology; I'll take her words with a grain of salt. In my mind she isn't a god because omnipotence it's not the exclusive realm of higher beings, but something that technology may be able to reach, specially Lost Technology, just like teleport and time-travel.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 20, 2016 8:17:08 GMT -8
Sunrider can't into nuance from the very beginning (with the particular exception of Ongess, but that case is special, and even then it's kinda a trick? I planned to spend quite a bit of space in this issue on my next part of my writing analysis ): that's not to say it's bad, because it isn't, but there's never been a moment when a character's been particularly complex, and the same extends to plot developments. The narrative and characters have always been very straightforward, even in MoA. Even most of the moral decisions end being extremely clear-cut. I agree that Asaga's is probably a "depending on the reader" thing, everyone will see it differently. However, on Claude I think that we simply lack too many information to state clearly what she is. Is she really invincible, or can she just simply teleport instantly? Can she rewrite all reality accurately, or just with broad strokes (because, with what she says, you could argue that anyone with a reliable time machine can "rewrite reality") Sola proclaims her as a god, but she is an Ancient Ryuvian who thought of her Emperor as close to godhood as you can be and venerates technology; I'll take her words with a grain of salt. In my mind she isn't a god because omnipotence it's not the exclusive realm of higher beings, but something that technology may be able to reach, specially Lost Technology, just like teleport and time-travel. On the contrary, it seemed to go into nuance VERY WELL right from the very beginning up until LibDay, from Ava's smooth introduction as Kayto's old friend-turned-officer, to Cera's sudden attack as a display of PACT's power, to the political machinations at Versta and so-on. And take a look at the wiki sometime to see all that I alone got out of the characters in looking at the past two Sunrider games - I really, really just find it hard to believe ANYONE can say that about the characters and plot, least of all you. Disagree - I think we have more then enough info on what she is from her interaction with Alpha; she's pretty much a God. I'm not sure why you don't want to acknowledge that, but it's pretty hard to deny just looking at LibDay V2.00. Considering she talked about actually feeling the vacuum of space and the explosion of her Ryder against her skin, she obviously didn't teleport out of the Bianca's destruction but endured it - so yes, invincible. Alpha noted she could completely remake their entire galaxy with a thought if she wanted to - so yes, reality-rewriter. By Sola's own words, the Ryuvians never made it to that level in the end - so no, contrary to what Sola believes, she's not likely Ryuvian if her tech goes beyond what they could have ever accomplished. Shifting between realities via walking between dimensional planes is leagues above simple teleporting or even time-travel. And yes, omnipotence typically IS reserved for higher beings such as Gods - having that either makes you one or makes you unto one. Again, I don't know you refuse to believe it, but Claude's (effectively) a God. Saying otherwise is basically pointless at this juncture given what we've seen.
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 20, 2016 18:02:33 GMT -8
I agree with Sharr, don't see where you are coming from saying that the past games were as bad as this one in terms of writing and pacing, they didn't suffer from the same issues at all.
According to the info presented to us in the game there's nothing to suggest that Sola is lying or exaggerating things. Alpha said that Claude could rewrite everything if she just wanted to with little effort, and Claude herself attested that she indeed got "killed" when she was shot and complained about her skin, not to mention her vast knowledge about the other timelines and consequences of messing too much with space time continuum. So, again, it's kinda of a moot point arguing this, unless there's evidence suggesting otherwise? I myself couldn't find any TBH.
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Post by Marx-93 on Apr 21, 2016 0:11:17 GMT -8
You should get a quick look at the meaning of nuance, it has nothing to do with plot or pacing. As I said before, it does not even need to have something to do with being good. A subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or soundSunrider has always been poor at nuance; you can see it from the characters and plots who are basically straight out tropes. Fleshed out tropes, but there's never an intention to delve out in those more minute differences. Asaga was the Optimist Hero of Justice TM (and even after Liberation Day she simply became a more mature Hero of Justice TM), Ava was the childhood friend who is now an ice queen, Icari a text-book tsundere nwith a bad past, etc. On villains you likewise had Cullen, the textbook fat aristocrat, Arcadius, an egomaniac who wants to conquer everything and knows about some "dark secrets", and Fontana who is the "good guy of the bad guys". The captain tortured by the death of his sister. Even the Alliance was like this, being a corrupt but seemingly decent democracy with a seemingly decent but ultimately "corrupt" (in the moral sense) Admiral. The plot and moral decisions also followed: First a fight against an Evil empire bent on conquering everything as you search for allies, later a your girl or the ship that killed your entire life decision, saving children or having and advantage at war. Even Ongess at the end also had a "the truth or your not-so-good allies" decision. Nuancing your work means adding extra details that makes a situation/plot/character more ambiguous and a lot harder to get the grip of. i.e. for example, in Versta the children instead of escaping from PACT were kidnapped by the diplomats as a result of a paranoid fear that what happened at Cera may be repeated (which due to the fact that Versta pretend to surrender, seems unlikely). That changes the whole decision and makes a lot harder to decide what you want to do, what is even correct, and what you must do. Nuance means going beyond basic meaning and situations and adding ambiguous factors. With the notable exception of Ongess, Sunrider tends to prefer to avoid that. It's not bad, as the situation and character are fleshed enough to come on their own (lack of nuance doesn't meant lack of character), and simplicity has a charm of its own. In fact, some even prefer it. The end result is that everything in Sunrider is sharp cut: you know in every moment which is the problem, what you have to do to solve it, who you have to fight, who is good and bad, and can describe each of your pilots in less than one line. On Claude, okay, I don't have any problems with that. I personally think you're mistaken, but it's something that we will see later. You're right it's a moot point right now.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 21, 2016 1:03:38 GMT -8
You should get a quick look at the meaning of nuance, it has nothing to do with plot or pacing. As I said before, it does not even need to have something to do with being good. A subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or soundSunrider has always been poor at nuance; you can see it from the characters and plots who are basically straight out tropes. Fleshed out tropes, but there's never an intention to delve out in those more minute differences. Asaga was the Optimist Hero of Justice TM (and even after Liberation Day she simply became a more mature Hero of Justice TM), Ava was the childhood friend who is now an ice queen, Icari a text-book tsundere nwith a bad past, etc. On villains you likewise had Cullen, the textbook fat aristocrat, Arcadius, an egomaniac who wants to conquer everything and knows about some "dark secrets", and Fontana who is the "good guy of the bad guys". The captain tortured by the death of his sister. Even the Alliance was like this, being a corrupt but seemingly decent democracy with a seemingly decent but ultimately "corrupt" (in the moral sense) Admiral. The plot and moral decisions also followed: First a fight against an Evil empire bent on conquering everything as you search for allies, later a your girl or the ship that killed your entire life decision, saving children or having and advantage at war. Even Ongess at the end also had a "the truth or your not-so-good allies" decision. Nuancing your work means adding extra details that makes a situation/plot/character more ambiguous and a lot harder to get the grip of. i.e. for example, in Versta the children instead of escaping from PACT were kidnapped by the diplomats as a result of a paranoid fear that what happened at Cera may be repeated (which due to the fact that Versta pretend to surrender, seems unlikely). That changes the whole decision and makes a lot harder to decide what you want to do, what is even correct, and what you must do. Nuance means going beyond basic meaning and situations and adding ambiguous factors. With the notable exception of Ongess, Sunrider tends to prefer to avoid that. It's not bad, as the situation and character are fleshed enough to come on their own (lack of nuance doesn't meant lack of character), and simplicity has a charm of its own. In fact, some even prefer it. The end result is that everything in Sunrider is sharp cut: you know in every moment which is the problem, what you have to do to solve it, who you have to fight, who is good and bad, and can describe each of your pilots in less than one line. On Claude, okay, I don't have any problems with that. I personally think you're mistaken, but it's something that we will see later. You're right it's a moot point right now. ... OK. I'm going to need to go on a tangent here - this is something I take a bit seriously. See, this bit about nuancel that's precisely my point - if you understand nuance so well, I don't get how you can say that Sunrider didn't have it. It has it and it did it good up until LibDay, and I honestly do not see how you believe otherwise even with this explanation. Sunrider has been pretty much the opposite - it's done very well, even stellar, with the use of nuance. Anyone can and has used a trope - it's making that trope not feel boring or tired that strikes the difference; Icari, Asaga and Ava were portrayed in ways that didn't make their concepts feel stale. They DID feel fleshed out, not just by their interactions and histories but even in how they functioned in missions and introductions. It's just like how Gundam has taken such templates and more often then not comes out with consistently-memorable characters, with even the ones you hate being memorable in their own way. The Alliance was shown as paranoid for a reason; PACT on their borders after the New Empire collapsed, upscale in piracy and lawlessness, ect. Even Gray became more human and understandable just in MoA upon showing he was the last of his dying lineage who was expected to win the war on his own the same as Kayto, making him as much a twisted mirror of the desperate pushed-to-the-limit MC as Fontana. Your argument doesn't feel like it works because it's far too generalized a claim - literally every single character and story under the sun would be factually devoid of nuance if the standard you're trying to use here was valid. Same for the plot and moral decisions - nearly every war in history starts with a legalized faction (Alliance) against an upstart faction or neighboring power (PACT, which BTW doesn't actually count as an Empire as opposed to a rival nation). Versta was also one of the nuanced decisions that rivaled Ongess - it intermixed personal vendettas with "what is best" regarding the whole situation, with the similarities between Icari and Kayto's victimizations at PACT's hands playing a role in that choice of "Will this help?" And the diplomat's actions are a perfect contrast because it seems to highlight Icari's argument that one can do more harm with an open hand then a closed fist - the diplomats being too good and generous at their job caused greater risk then if they'd just said no. That in turn throws a player off when they'd been resolved to throw these people away because now it's not just a statistic - these are good people who were genuinely trying to do whatever good they can; that's nuance. At Ongess, Ava also served as the counterbalance by pointing out the reverse argument for each side, which made it more a case of two warring factions instead of "good guys and bad guys"; that's nuance. Each choice dealt with different questions you face in war; - Slaves or Comm-Depot = "How far are you willing to go to wage war - and are stopping the soldiers more important, or is helping those the war has oppressed?" - Versta = "How far are you willing to go to possibly prevent more deaths elsewhere - and do you save the few in front of you or the many in the future who aren't yet at risk?" - Ongess = "How far are you willing to go to preserve a frail order - and who's order are you preserving anyway?" - Helion = "How far are you willing to take retribution - and is it for justice or revenge?" These are some of the core questions of war that are ALWAYS debated in just about every anime that has to do with giant mechas - and yet each one can and many times does offer new spins on the questions and how they are approached, Sunrider included. Again, this feels more like you stamping a generalized argument on the whole series rather then seeing what actually did or didn't mesh. And in looking at the series at a whole... again, I CANNOT see how you don't see nuance in the characters; - Asaga was a "hero", but she was one who was also a self-admitted opportunist in the very first meeting, tying anti-pirate duty with reward-collection. - Chigara was a "dere", but she was also one that actually felt useful not just functionally as ship engineer but as Asaga's confidant. - Claude was a "ditz", but she was one that was shown to actually be intelligent without any of it feeling fake. - Icari was a "tsundere", but she was a very natural behavior that, mixed with her backstory, was actually believable that she'd have that mindset and personality. - Kryska was a "trooper", but she was also an idealist and realist and ironically was one of the last people to judge because of it in many cases. - Ava was a "comrade", but she was one that had a very balanced connection with Kayto because she stable core to build Kayto's character off of. Therefore, I'm sorry, but I simply cannot - nay, refuse to believe - that you don't or can't see nuance in this series. And in all honesty... what you said here really just seems to hurt LibDay more, since a lot of your conclusions stem from the fact that LibDay flubbed up on delivering satisfying continuations of what was done in the rest of the series regarding Asaga's hero-complex, Arcadius' justifications and so-forth - the last games were nuanced; LibDay was not. The failure to "delve out in those more minute differences" seems to rest with LibDay as opposed to the whole series, and at this point it just feels like you're trying to generalize the issue instead of disseminate it - like you'd rather think the entire series failed at this instead of even remotely considering that LibDay alone was where this went wrong. And if I were to term what the biggest failings of LibDay were in this regard... I'd have to use Batman V Superman as an example based on this particular review of it; - a lot of the arguments here, you could exchange for the main elements of LibDay. If you have weak motivations or ill-executed premises behind the fights, then the battles feel forced no matter how good they themselves are - "you see them fighting, but you don't experience them fighting" (jump to 13:50 on vid). If we don't know why the villain does what they do prior to their death/defeat or have ill-defined objectives, it's hard to get invested in defeating them or even see them as a character as opposed to a cutout (jump to 5:00 on vid). And when a character dies, you want to feel like the death was earned and heartfelt after you got a connection to them, instead of it being tossed out with a death in one swoop after only being forced to care about them - especially for a main character (jump to 19:10). These are instances where LibDay failed on nuance that the prior games did not. And on Claude... Marx... given your prior arguments, that's tantamount to just saying "you're wrong but I can't prove it even though you've clearly proven your own points." It's moot, yes, but you don't even seem capable of saying that without going out of the way to say you somehow still think we're wrong. TBH, that feels kinda condescending (and yes, I know I'm probably the pot calling the kettle black on this one, but I'm still going to say it).
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 21, 2016 10:24:45 GMT -8
Oh right we were talking about poor presentation here, my bad, english is not my first language (I learned a new word today yay). Well, Sharr pretty much summed my own opinion in his post better than I could, if anything LD is the first time were nuance was thrown out of the window, with characters like Icari becoming more one dimensional by having her tsundereness cranked up to 11 and Chigara becoming more akin to a moe blob by acting like a little girl all the time with the "hihihi Captain please hurry to open the bakery with Chigara", which is a far cry from the shy, level headed girl from the previous installments. Seems you're trying to make the entire series look a bit lacking in an attempt to defend LD, but I simply can't agree with that based on what has been presented so far.
Ok, then let's leave the issue about Claude on that, I thought you had some meta evidence or something like in Asaga's case to say that but I guess that's not the case this time.
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Post by Marx-93 on Apr 28, 2016 2:41:45 GMT -8
Overall, sorry for the delay, I've been very busy this past days. Besides that, I've few to say. Sharr's post is a perfect example... of what fleshing out mean. And fleshing out is not nuance. The original Sunrider was great at fleshing out it's characters and plots, while Liberation Day was horrible at it. And to be honest Sharr, you're starting to seriously annoy me with painting me as stalwart defender of Liberation day while I spent at least 10 hours severely criticizing all of its writings failings (including a lot of what you say) and even the gameplay (which no one had dared before in the beta). That I can look with perspective because I saw it coming does not translate to "I like Lib Day and I want the series to die". I was even the one that first dared to criticize it when the second beta was barely out.
Still, fleshing out is not what nuancing is, even if the vague definition can be similar. And as I said before, you can perfectly do without nuancing, development and fleshing out is enough, a lot of great works have done without it (for example, the Lord of the Rings has close to 0 nunace). Nuance is difference, subtlety and shades; everything in Sunrider is justified and explained, but that does not mean is nuanced. It's actually almost a technical point; part of the difficulty comes from the prose itself on a technical level. Nuance is when something ambiguous happens, when you're not entirely sure of what you're working for, or even if what you're doing is useful or not. Nuances are not battles or wars, but rebellions, suppression, in-fighting, doubts. Nuance is not fleshing your trope, but rather making a surprising step aside at the last moment. With nuance, when you're making a decision, you don't know what it really entails, you don't have a weight on the balance, but rather a set of premises and hopes: it's not deciding between the way and the means, it's finding 10 minutes later that your decision was worthless because your advisor manipulated what you knew and took it for you. Nuance can be bad, as a lot of times poorly delivered it can clash with the established setting.
Gundam's main narrative is not nuanced in itself (though a few of its characters are) most of the times (Z Gundam did play with it a little, though not much). Dark Souls narrative is nuanced. Overall, again, I apologize for the delay, but I think continuing this makes no sense, we're clearly thinking of different things, and basically comparing apples with oranges, and we've severely gone off topic.
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 28, 2016 14:48:23 GMT -8
Overall, sorry for the delay, I've been very busy this past days. Besides that, I've few to say. Sharr's post is a perfect example... of what fleshing out mean. And fleshing out is not nuance. The original Sunrider was great at fleshing out it's characters and plots, while Liberation Day was horrible at it. And to be honest Sharr, you're starting to seriously annoy me with painting me as stalwart defender of Liberation day while I spent at least 10 hours severely criticizing all of its writings failings (including a lot of what you say) and even the gameplay (which no one had dared before in the beta). That I can look with perspective because I saw it coming does not translate to "I like Lib Day and I want the series to die". I was even the one that first dared to criticize it when the second beta was barely out. Still, fleshing out is not what nuancing is, even if the vague definition can be similar. And as I said before, you can perfectly do without nuancing, development and fleshing out is enough, a lot of great works have done without it (for example, the Lord of the Rings has close to 0 nunace). Nuance is difference, subtlety and shades; everything in Sunrider is justified and explained, but that does not mean is nuanced. It's actually almost a technical point; part of the difficulty comes from the prose itself on a technical level. Nuance is when something ambiguous happens, when you're not entirely sure of what you're working for, or even if what you're doing is useful or not. Nuances are not battles or wars, but rebellions, suppression, in-fighting, doubts. Nuance is not fleshing your trope, but rather making a surprising step aside at the last moment. With nuance, when you're making a decision, you don't know what it really entails, you don't have a weight on the balance, but rather a set of premises and hopes: it's not deciding between the way and the means, it's finding 10 minutes later that your decision was worthless because your advisor manipulated what you knew and took it for you. Nuance can be bad, as a lot of times poorly delivered it can clash with the established setting. Gundam's main narrative is not nuanced in itself (though a few of its characters are) most of the times (Z Gundam did play with it a little, though not much). Dark Souls narrative is nuanced. Overall, again, I apologize for the delay, but I think continuing this makes no sense, we're clearly thinking of different things, and basically comparing apples with oranges, and we've severely gone off topic. NO - I'm sorry, but no. See, in Sunrider's case it's the opposite - the fleshing out is caused by the existence of nuance in the characters. You've misunderstood the whole point of my argument, Marx - which was that the way these characters were nuanced was what fleshed them out more. Fleshing out a character is largely dependent on them being nuanced, or else they're just a cut-out of something that's already been done before - you literally cannot flesh out a character without them having nuance in them. Fleshing out is tied to and often resultant from, if not a requirement of, nuancing a character and story, because this is what draws you in and makes you care enough about the setting and story to even start fleshing things out in the first place. The series as a whole was great with this until Liberation Day. ... in fact, I'm starting to wonder if you simply don't know how to differentiate the two (or maybe are doing the opposite and overgeneralizing the two), since saying this of Lord of the Rings and Gundam of all things is... well, I'm tempted to open with my thoughts here, but I'll suffice for saying "you need to re-watch them you somehow think that." Nuance in Sunrider existed from the very start in subtle shades regarding: - Asaga (obviously a stanch defender of justice with the freedom of mercantile work to carry it out through. She also doesn't seem like the kind of person content to pirates while PACT is out there, so she must have had some sort of reason to be isolated like she is, already implying a secret to her. She sees herself a hero, but she was a realistic one - opposite to how LibDay portrayed her) - Chigara (Shy and gentle, yet very intelligent and actually making active contributions to the ship every day with things like the short-range warp system. Her experience as a machinist was a subtle influencer to her social awkwardness as machines are easier to repair and fix then people are) - Icari (jaded and sardonic, her tsundere behavior was perfect for a mercenary and vice-versa, making her a more realistic spin on an age-old trope) - Sola (stoic and cold, she literally felt like somebody out of a different age well before we ever learned the full truth about her past, making her far more alien then the rest of the crew on first glance) - Claude (flamboyant and easy-going, she was portrayed as comic-relief but it was contrasted by her unconventional usefulness in combat with her Ryder, along with a perceptiveness of others that was both precise and helpful. Hell, Claude is arguably one of the most nuanced characters in the series since she always was helpful and supportive of others - even when detrimental to her own goals - without ever directly stating why; she just did it) - Ava (Official and stern, she was nuanced in the fact that she never actually felt overbearing as a character - she was always able to causally bring up the other side of the argument for Kayto to bounce off of, even in instances that it was the side she opposed to). Everything in Sunrider was justified after we were introduced to them - every character was introduced not only with their own personalities but in professions that would justify their behaviors well before we even learned about the where, why and how. Hell, Ava alone is a good example of this due to her relationship with Kayto, the exact nature of which we could guess at but was not actually revealed until near the end of MoA. Nuance also existed in every single major choice you made regarding: - Versta (Is helping the Alliance be ready sooner worth the lives I'm not saving now?) - Ongess (Is closure for those deaths worth leaving Ongess completely lawless and harming the effort against PACT?) - Helion (Is revenge or justice worth my crew?/is my crew worth the lives I'm abandoning?) None of these choices had set balances - all of them were just premises and hopes because there was no solid way of knowing what was going to be best or worst in the long run. It also existed in things you didn't have choice for, one example being Operation Wedding Crash as Ava points out that Kayto doesn't even know if rescuing Asaga would be better or worse for both of them or Ryuvia itself. And throughout every single choice, there is the question of whether or not these decisions will actually help you liberate Cera in the end. There were rebellions - Icari (albeit offscreen) turned on the crew to try and go after Kayto at Ongess, Kayto and Ava had a rebellion/argument against each-other during the Legion choice. There was suppression - Asaga suppressing her own feelings for her world even when deep down she wasn't sure it would do any good. There was in-fighting - between Icari and Kryska, between Kayto and Ava, ect. And more then anything, there were doubts - doubts in Icari about her life to this point, doubts in Chigara about whether or not she knew what love was, doubts in Asaga about her own capabilities as a 'Hero' or her friendship and feelings regarding Chigara and Kayto, doubts in Sola about the value of emotions amid the cold logic of war, and most of all there were doubts in Kayto as (no matter what choice or moral mindset he had) he struggled with both the ramifications of his actions and the effects and (possible non-)existence of his own humanity as the war went on. And TBH Marx, you're mixed up again here - I'm not saying you're a "stalwart defender of Liberation Day." I'd have only ever called you that had you claimed LibDay was perfect or had no faults, but that's not the case - rather it's that, for whatever reason, you tend try and make the rest of the series look lacking along with it. You've admitted LibDay had big faults, but I have seen you repeatedly try to downplay how bad these failings were, as well as chalk up the game's failure to "false expectations or the player", "comparisons to the old games" and "flaws universal to the series" instead of actually ever accepting the game flat-out failed on both it's own merits and that of the series. It's not that you want to defend LibDay as good - it's that you try to defend it as not being very bad. And the fact that you conveniently described nuance here using every single exact plot-element LibDay tried (and failed) to do seems to point that way even farther, because it feels like you're trying to say LibDay had more or equal nuance to the past games when it really didn't. There was subtlety and shades - nuance - throughout the Sunrider series; bluntly put, it really just looks to me like you simply don't want to acknowledge it because it would make LibDay look much worse then you want it to. Plus this is still on-topic since it still regards concerns about the story.
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Post by zenith on Apr 28, 2016 18:09:39 GMT -8
Speaking of story, what happened to chigara's ryder, liberty? Does it get destroyed along with the sunrider?
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 28, 2016 18:36:46 GMT -8
Speaking of story, what happened to chigara's ryder, liberty? Does it get destroyed along with the sunrider? I'd imagine. The only one I could think of that would have piloted it was Lynn, and she stayed in the escape pod with Kayto. So it probably was in the hangar, abandoned, when the Sunrider went out. Unless it got jettisoned with other equipment or the like, but I digress since I don't know Ceren protocols for a sinking ship.
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Post by longtimelurker on Apr 28, 2016 22:18:10 GMT -8
Speaking of story, what happened to chigara's ryder, liberty? Does it get destroyed along with the sunrider? Yeah I guess so, didn't see anyone towing the Liberty away during the escape or even a single comment regarding it, so that's the most probable outcome considering Lynn escaped in a pod with you. Huh now that I think about it that would be quite a twist if Cosette used the Liberty to escape the Sunrider if you choose to scrap her ryder haha. Btw guys, can we stop the discussion about semantics? We are literally discussing what nuance means at this point, IIRC that was brought up because I said that the twist about Claude being a "Goddess" instead of just a time traveler was dumb, we have already agreed about that so I guess there's nothing further to deal with in that direction right?
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Post by SharrOfRyuvia on Apr 29, 2016 9:29:36 GMT -8
Speaking of story, what happened to chigara's ryder, liberty? Does it get destroyed along with the sunrider? Yeah I guess so, didn't see anyone towing the Liberty away during the escape or even a single comment regarding it, so that's the most probable outcome considering Lynn escaped in a pod with you. Huh now that I think about it that would be quite a twist if Cosette used the Liberty to escape the Sunrider if you choose to scrap her ryder haha. Btw guys, can we stop the discussion about semantics? We are literally discussing what nuance means at this point, IIRC that was brought up because I said that the twist about Claude being a "Goddess" instead of just a time traveler was dumb, we have already agreed about that so I guess there's nothing further to deal with in that direction right? ... I guess you have a point, there. Okay.
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Post by Somasam on May 1, 2016 9:26:47 GMT -8
Yeah, was getting a little off topic there. Either way, I might as well go along with the question about liberty's Ryder. It made me think about the condition of what Ryders are still left from the original wing. - Black Jack and Seraphim - Left before the Ceran massacre and came back in 2.0 to save the day. Both still fully operational.
- Phoenix and Paladin - Stayed behind and survived Ceran Massacre and destruction of Sunrider. Both still fully operational.
- Bianca - Destroyed in the final missions before liberation of Cera. What I am curious about is if Claude is going to just 'happen' upon another fully operational Ryder from another pre-space-travel-world like she did with the Bianca, or if she will just wait around before we can get her another one.
- Liberty - We are all in agreement that it has almost certainly been destroyed in the hanger of the Sunrider when it went down. The only possibilities of its survival are if Cosette did steal it to flee if we scraped her Ryder, or the prototypes had the capacity to sneak onto the Sunrider and take the Liberty out of it before the massacre went down. Both seem unlikely however.
- Havoc - Three different continuities for it, either: 1. destroyed in battle for Helios, 2. scrapped after recovery - possibly just missing its legs if Cosette fled using it, or 3. Fully repaired thanks to the engineer crew, and survived Sunrider's destruction. So still fully operational and at large. Possibly even improved from its original form.
One thing to note is that now that we have neither our tech genius nor our military backing, our Engineering crew is probably going to be barely managing to just keep the Ryders operational. While they might have survived the destruction of the sunrider, they have the very real potential to start degrading due to lack of proper maintenance.
What I am curious about is what is Bianca going to do in tactical combat without a Ryder. Possibly another XO like Ava, probably not though. The other major concern I have is what are we going to do without any support Ryders in our wing. I wouldn't mind if the gameplay turned more stealth oriented with hit-and-run tactics, but we are certainly in no position to fight extended skirmishes with just a few slowly deteriorating Ryders and just a cargo carrier as the main ship.
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Post by longtimelurker on May 3, 2016 22:05:49 GMT -8
I think the Bianca is gone for good too, considering Claude's speech with Alpha about what being exposed to that degree of destruction does to her skin, and no mentions about it at all from anyone reinforces that. I guess that Asaga and Ava will conveniently find another ryder similar to the Bianca while scavenging the Ryuvian moon (with a little meddling of a certain pink haired character) so that she can keep fighting instead of sitting on her lazy ass in the med bay all the time (not that anyone will trust her with that from now after that prototype fiasco), and heck we need at least one friggin support ryder now that the Liberty is gone (just realized how annoying battles will get without flak and shield off...).
Yeah the situation will be real rough in the beginning considering that Kayto and Co. are at odds with PACT, the Alliance and the Union. MAYBE Cosette can smooth things with the pirates if you have scored enough points with her to be on her not-bad side, and Asaga can draft some people to our side as the Queen of Ryuvia before Crow takes over I guess, even if they are not that strong as in the past surely there are some good people that can be recruited and equipment that can be salvaged. Still, no support from major super-powers are gonna put us back at the start of FA in the best case scenario, which is pretty bad all things considered hahaha.
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Post by Somasam on May 4, 2016 13:44:01 GMT -8
Yeah, I am not quite sure what is going to be done with Claude herself though.
The only people who know anything of her true nature are both stuck planetside and in hiding. While the only person who has any suspensions about her, Ava, is currently busy trying to bring us back from the brink. We still don't even know what was on her Holo-pad in the med bay that Ava found.
I wonder if we will get the ability to imprison her again like we did when we first met her. I was actually kind of disappointed that when Claude talked with Alpha about how she met Kayto, she didn't mention him throwing her right in the brig for impersonating a medical professional. I sure as hell ain't letting her back into the med bay again, check ups be damned. I still have the silly little impulse that she will be an XO, completely at odds with Ava, yet still there and somewhat competent in her own right. Or at least bumble around and do the right thing through shear luck.
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Post by longtimelurker on May 7, 2016 15:50:52 GMT -8
Hmmm I don't think it's wise to provoke Claude by being hostile towards her, just like Sola said she can and will wipe or distort reality if you push her too much so it would be best to play nice for now, don't think imprisoning her will do much good at this point considering she can just teleport outside if she realizes that the cat is out of the bag and trying to keep up appearances s pointless. Ava might have a clue about her too but she will surely be careful with the information before confronting Claude directly, and we probably will have a ryder for her to use in the first battle along with the new Sunrider so I don't think her role in the crew will become an issue (although it would be funny if she used her powers to pinpoint all enemies ambushes/tactics and ended up being a better XO than Ava hahaha).
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